Zeitgeist movie, and addendum

[Moosader]

For those of you who have a couple hours to burn (on each movie...), Zeitgeist and Addendum are free movies produced by Peter Joseph.
The first Zeitgeist covers religion, the 9/11 attacks, and the federal reserve.

Addendum is even more about the federal reserve and the debt we're slaves to.

Zeitgeist can be viewed here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7743189197
And Addendum can be viewed here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7695921912

[Willshire The Mad]

Wow that movie is really getting around. I have had one person from skool and one from work to say to watch it. Well I might just do that........Sometime

[Moosader]

I'd really suggest watching it.
If nothing else, check out addendum.
I know it's two hours, but you can work on code and watch movies, right? That's what I do. =P

[Willshire The Mad]

Ahhhh... No I do no code. I am just a lowly major in Graphic Design. I will probubly doodle or something.

[Kleithap]

That was some good advice Lusikka. I just checked out addendum, and I was impressed. I'm not sure how much I should believe, but I'm certainly looking into it . Btw, did you join the movement? Just curious :D

[Moosader]

Oh yeah, it wasn't up when I checked it earlier, but it's the 10th now, maybe it will be. =P
I do like the idea of the Venus Project, but it does seem a bit hard to attain in our current society.

[cypher1554R]

I watched Addendum, and I recommend it to everyone as well.


I can relate to it, cause I already had that feeling..
Haven't you ever felt that feeling..? The master feeling of giving for free.. We are making
a game for free for fu*k sake. Isn't that the best feeling that ever ran through you..? (except orgasm during sex)

Surely everyone of us has at least once given something for free. Now! Imagine you could do that all the time, every time of the day not having to worry about if you're going to have something to eat. Cause, not only you have enough to eat.. you have anything you need to make your creation come to life.

I don't think people would become lazy and just lay around doing nothing.. Machines would do ALL THE WORK, and you could just spend ALL THE TIME doing thing you love to do. And not forced to do. I think the productivity would reach stunning levels.. How creative can you be, when all day you have to do something boring, utterly insignificant and come home dead exhausted..?

Think about all the stuff we have today.. Of all that - NOTHING, and I mean nothing that was created under system pressure, could stand to all the things created outside. Most and the best of useful stuff was created with a person with too much time on his hands, just cruising around with his thoughts.. (those are usually the school dropouts, btw . More directly told, ladies and gentlemen.. the system oppresses evolution, improvement, creativity, originality, reason and just proves how backward we are as a species. I don't know about you, but that is just extremely insulting to me.

edit: System fails even in the creativity department on it's own.. Nuclear bomb is the kind of creativity that system produces.. think about that too. War was generated by system, bomb was made as a result..

[MarauderIIC]

Assuming that I'm reading right into your use of 'system', you're saying that the 'system' is not responsible for:

• Major advances in health care (war, made by the 'system', causes this)
  Sorry, no textual examples... can I just say that a live solder > a dead one?
• Major advances in security (war, made by the 'system', causes this)
  Can I just say "NSA" here? This means your bank account is safe.
• Major advances in computers (war, made by the 'system', causes this)

  Large-scale automated data processing of punched cards was performed for the U.S. Census in 1890 by tabulating machines designed by Herman Hollerith and manufactured by the Computing Tabulating Recording Corporation, which later became IBM.

• Major advances in communication technology (war, made by the 'system', causes this)
  Satellites : Sputnik -> ... -> Cell phones
  Internet:

  The ARPANET (Advanced Research Projects Agency Network) developed by ARPA of the United States Department of Defense, was the world's first operational packet switching network, and the predecessor of the global Internet.

• Major advances in food storage (war, made by the 'system', causes this)
  M&M's

  Forrest Mars, Sr., founder of the Mars Company, got the idea for the confection in the 1930s during the Spanish Civil War

• Major advances in nuclear physics (govt funding -> power plants -> bomb... )

  This spurred scientists in many countries (including the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, and the Soviet Union) to petition their government for support of nuclear fission research.

  • > Major advances in power plant technology - nuclear power
    • >Cleaner world

      The population effective dose equivalent from radiation from coal plants is 100 times as much as nuclear plants.

I dunno, I think some of that stands up pretty well to things created by people with time on their hands... Hopefully I understood your usage correctly, having still not watched the movie :) And hopefully I made a sturdy argument against the system being a horrible bad thing that makes nothing useful.

[Kleithap]

Marauder, you're correct the "system" does produce useful things and is responsible for advances in a range of areas.

However, Addendum makes the argument that while there is progress, it is nothing compared to the progress we could have if we weren't bound by some of the limits of the current system. (Addendum focuses on the monetary system as a major limiting factor of progress.)

[MarauderIIC]

I'm working my way through the Addendum. My post was refuting Cypher saying that nothing good came out of the system compared to non-system -- I wasn't establishing a counter-argument to the video, yet.

The impression I get from your post is that he's sort of talking about Communism?

Communism is ... based on common ownership... Common ownership is a way of “neutralising” capital ...

Communism states that the only way to solve these [inherent with capitalism, imperialism, nationalism] problems is for the working class, or proletariat, to replace the wealthy bourgeoisie, which is currently the ruling class, in order to establish a peaceful, free society, without classes, or government.

'Cause that's been tried and didn't work very well :) Or is he just saying that the system needs to be improved and removing it is not the way to do so?

Watching more of it.

[MarauderIIC]

Here, read some of the other side
http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articl ... /part-one/

Some other threads
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t350196069
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/867405

Thoughts on the first 20 minutes below. Slow going because I've been doing lookups while watching. Watching while doing something else, simply believing and not researching claims, is not an attitude that I recommend watching this or say, political ads with.

Tone of overall skepticism in my thoughts.txt is backed up with some third-party quotes that I didn't source. That's all of my time I'm wasting on that. Too many errors in what he's said that I could pick up on with ONLY my high school economics and my History of the US after 1865, and a lot of the base-base-basics that he based his usually-incorrects on was no surprise.

Read my thoughts on what he said about Andrew Jackson, if you want. Some of the thoughts are just things I wanted to reference later "gold supply" "silver supply" for instance (when money was backed, it was too unstable!)

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couched in negative language == warning
	'impressive-looking'...'paper'
	'paper notes'..
	scare tactics "only 3%!!"
	intruments of DEBT
	mind-numbing paradox
	black & white portions
	incomplete information
		does not reference deflation
		does not reference removing money from circulation
			out of country
			out of circulation
		*CAN BE* created
		it can: deflation, anybody? remove money, money is worth more
	thin air
	money that already exists -- inflation, welcome to economics
	'tax on the public'
	fraudulent system

- money is belief in value, not representative of value
	- moved away from gold standard
	- fdic

	maybe more like money is worthless
- inflation
	- deposit == inlation
	- deflation
		- interest rates
		- money overseas

fed reserve:
	- created to control inflation
		- gold supply
		- silver supply
		- takes money out of circulation too

closing national bank led to:
The result was a great demand for specie,
which many banks did not have enough of to
exchange for their notes. These banks collapsed.[24]
This was a direct cause of the Panic of 1837, which threw
the national economy into a deep depression. It took years
for the economy to recover from the damage.
OSHIT
this is why the fed is distributed between government and private ownership

jackson did not pay off the debt
n 1835, Jackson managed to reduce the federal debt to only $33,733.05,
the lowest it has been since the first fiscal year of 1791.[17] However,
this accomplishment was short lived, and a severe depression from 1837 to
1844 caused a ten-fold increase in national debt within its first year.[18]

he is right that nobody can pay off all their loans simultaneously
if everyone has money, as this money has interest on it, then duh there's more
interest 'in the supply' than actual money.
but what happens if one person pays off all his interest at a time?
not true that there is always poor parts
	what if everyone only owes half their money as interest to the bank?
	if its not true for you then its not true for everyone
	not everyone will bankrupt
	when you bankrupt all your interest and debt disappears and you are left with
	money that has no interest attached because _you are no longer in debt_
	19:25

and yet obviously foreclosures still exist, what case is he missing? was this overturned?
nullified says forum post

In short, he's too wrong too often for me to endorse believing this. Please do yourself a favor and don't.

[JS Lemming]

Well done Mar.

[ansatsusha_gouki]

ive seen both and they both was really good

[MarauderIIC]

The addendum was 'good' if you want the basics (maybe even basis) of economics based in scare tactics and wrong information, sure. But why not get it scare-tactic free from a good book?

[cypher1554R]

The monetary system was probably a necessary step in human evolution. Mainly because - Not always was the technology that enables us to ignore it here. And it's probably going to take a lot of time to evolve, cause this thing is rooted to the mf ground.

For start: Imagine your house having a solar cell, and a modern windmill or two. All connected to some kind of accumulator to store all the energy gathered. You wouldn't need to pay your electric company ever again, there would be no blackouts and so on.
But yeah.. You need to get one of these first.. Which is the only problem, and it's pretty big.

If we could figure how to capture & store a lightning strike.. phew.. you know about it..