Forum for the creative side of the game development process: art, music, storyline, gameplay, concepts, etc. Any sort of relevant discussion is welcome here.
Thel wrote:I compose music so I'm a music composer. You don't have to be as good as Mozart to say that you're a music composer. What about programmers? It's the same argument.
being a good programmer is a cognitive choice, being able to compose good music one might call a gift.
taking loops and mashing them together is not composing music.
but then again thats just my *humble* opinion.
Some person, "I have a black belt in karate"
Dad, "Yea well I have a fan belt in street fighting"
avansc wrote:taking loops and mashing them together is not composing music.
It doesn't go like that.. You have virtual instruments and their 2d matrices: keyboard[nKeys] * time[beats*beat-rate], then you place events key by key. When it comes to band, we use real instruments in combination with my virtual sampler. The sampler is usb physical instrument controlled tho, I don't click around on the stage.
As for offline composing, I think that drawing events is acceptable depending on what kind of music you make.
You obviously have no idea of the process involved in composing good music. I don't use loops in that way but I do use loops by chopping them and processing them through effects etc. I also do a lot of sound design and I study Sound Design Tech at Uni. It takes a good knowledge of the technology if you're going to compose good music or design good sounds for use in a project. You'd be amazed at how many composers have no idea how EQ works or the difference between Peak and RMS or why CDs use a sample rate of 44.1 kHz. No-one is born w/ that knowledge so it can only be taught. No-one is born w/ a knowledge of music theory. I've read books and books on the books on these subjects. A "gift" only goes so far but it takes a lot more effort if you want to be really good.
I'm sure his knowledge of music theory was very good. However that's before the days of MIDI sequencers and effects processors etc. My view of the music composer differs somewhat from yours. Thanks to developments in music technology the composer can take on the role of the engineer and I encourage all young composers to learn as much as they can because if you want to earn a job in the video game industry as a music composer or sound designer then you have to know your stuff.
avansc wrote:being a good programmer is a cognitive choice, being able to compose good music one might call a gift.
Being a good music composer is a cognitive choice; being a good programmer is what one might call a gift.
Being a good programmer is a cognitive choice; being a good music composer is what one might call a gift.
Being a good music composer is a cognitive choice; being a good programmer is a cognitive choice.
It sounds to me like some people in this thread are greatly confusing sound engineering with music composition. There is a big difference between writing a Symphony and engineering a drum & bass sequence that will sound clean on a nice set of subwoofers. Both take a lot of skill and practice to master, as well as a good ear. And they both certainly have their own place in this industry.
But I'd have to agree with avansc; being a great composer is a gift. It is no coincidence that 250 some-odd years later the works of Beethoven and Mozart have seldom been rivaled.
Thel wrote:I beg to differ. Those guys were classically trained from a young age. No-one is born a composer.
I agree, I think I'm pretty good at composing now, because I took lessons on composing. However, if I tried composing 6 years ago it would sound like someone having a seizure on a piano.
Thel wrote:I beg to differ. Those guys were classically trained from a young age. No-one is born a composer.
okay. well to give you perspective, beethoven composed some of the most beautiful music when he was completely deaf. you try that.
motzart wrote music and never made a mistake, never wrote something down, played it then changed it. he just wrote it and it was perfect. when he was unknown some famous composer of that time went to his house and mozart's wife i believe showed the dude his works. and the guy said where are the drafts. and she said he doesent have any he just writed these. the man stopped being a composer.
mozart traveld for days to hear allegri’s miserere, a piece considered so beautiful it was only played once a year and there were only one set of notes kept safe. he went home and reproduced it. all 9 parts i believe, without making a mistake..
now you go and have fun with your loops and so on. and yeah, it may be hard. and may sound nice.. but you are not in the same league and the classical composers.
ps: thx hurts
Some person, "I have a black belt in karate"
Dad, "Yea well I have a fan belt in street fighting"
Actually he composed dark music when he was deaf. As music technology develops thanks to computer science the gap between composer and engineer becomes lesser. These days a composer such as Hans Zimmer uses Cubase, Logic, ProTools etc. to compose music using advanced sample sets that sound amazing. Do you know that the in-game music for FFXII is a fake orchestra? It sounds too good to be fake but that's the beauty of how technology has augmented music. All professional MIDI sequencers allow you to convert MIDI into a score for an orchestra to interpret. That's the process these days and if you're not happy w/ it then blame computer science not those wannabe composers who just use loops. Now how many composers from the old days can you say you enjoy their music? I never said I was better than those guys but there's no need to offend me because you don't even know me. All I can say is that I've done well to get to Uni and receive label interest. If it wasn't for technology music would be very boring. Let me give you some knowledge because I know a fair bit of music theory whereas you don't. If you know music theory then you don't have to rely on your ears to compose good music.
dude, you obviously dont understand what i am saying...
i never said you cant do amazing things with computer instruments, i never said the quality of the sound is bad.
you are just defending what you do and i can understand that. and thats fine..
but lets take this idea then for a second... are you gonna tell me that people that use 3dmax or psp, to make art. are the same caliber artist that da vinci, Michelangelo were?
and cunt. if you are gonna tell me to not offend you because i dont know you.. take some your own god damn advice.
"If it wasn't for technology music would be very boring. Let me give you some knowledge because I know a fair bit of music theory whereas you don't."
so music before the invent of the computer was boring. haha, fucking tool.
"If you know music theory then you don't have to rely on your ears to compose good music."
firs of all you have no idea what it is to be deaf. no in theory this might be true. i dont dispute that. but it be laughable to watch you sit at a piano and make an original piece of music without any hearing. and im not insulting you with that, very few in the exsistance of man kind could do that.
oh an by the fucking way. if i had a nickle for everytime i heard someone say they have label interest...
Some person, "I have a black belt in karate"
Dad, "Yea well I have a fan belt in street fighting"
You'd have a few nickels? Technology doesn't just imply computers. Technology goes way back before the invent of computers. In fact the origins of music technology go back to cavemen banging rocks to form music. However I was referring to the study of music and not music as a form of enjoyment. And anyone can compose original music w/o any hearing it just may not always sound pleassurable but then I never really found rap to sound pleassurable but it's music nonetheless. And you can't really compare a 3DMax-user to Michelangelo because he wasn't a 3DMax-user. And I have received label interest from a pretty good label.
I don't click around on the stage.
I see your point. Modern artists have a privilege 
