Elysian Shadows

avansc wrote:so making a singleplayer game and then trying to make it MMO, is basically impossible.

Well.. Depends on how generic/flexible you make your engine.. And if you can make a full single player game like you imagine, you're not far from being able to do it network-wise. In any case, you might be forced to rewrite a big part of the engine to make it MMO..

cypher1554R wrote:

avansc wrote:so making a singleplayer game and then trying to make it MMO, is basically impossible.

Well.. Depends on how generic/flexible you make your engine.. And if you can make a full single player game like you imagine, you're not far from being able to do it network-wise. In any case, you might be forced to rewrite a big part of the engine to make it MMO..

have you ever really done any mass networking application?

let me ask you this, if you were to make a MMO, that would only have to support 1000 members, how would you do it?

avansc wrote: have you ever really done any mass networking application?

let me ask you this, if you were to make a MMO, that would only have to support 1000 members, how would you do it?

Answer to first question: No. I'm a net illiterate. I develop only offline stuff(for now), but will learn network stuff later.

Answer to second question: Hm.. I don't know.. In my logic, if you can make something work for 3 machines, you can do the same for unlimited, by having unlimited server storage. ->One server, that calculates logic in your whole virtual world, and the others download the updates on each object, and render it.. or.. something like that..

I even know some PHP, so I'm pretty experienced with the database shit. Though, I believe that's a great comment indeed. Just expand the work time and learn from the whole development, if I can pull that off this project will succeed. But, it'll take a shitload of a time. Ah, I'll just keep studying some more. Right now I've been trying to get into some C++, since its the only language that’s great for game development now a days. I've learnt a programming language called "Turing." I'm definitely sure many of you guys don't know it that well though. It's great for beginners like me; it was a whole lot of fun too. Maybe you guys should google it or something, its very simple and you can even create simple 2d/3d games with it too.

cypher1554R wrote:

avansc wrote: have you ever really done any mass networking application?

let me ask you this, if you were to make a MMO, that would only have to support 1000 members, how would you do it?

Answer to first question: No. I'm a net illiterate. I develop only offline stuff(for now), but will learn network stuff later.

Answer to second question: Hm.. I don't know.. In my logic, if you can make something work for 3 machines, you can do the same for unlimited, by having unlimited server storage. ->One server, that calculates logic in your whole virtual world, and the others download the updates on each object, and render it.. or.. something like that..

unfortunately TCP/IP and UDP does not work that way. its not a linear problem but rather exponential, unless you have some networking knowledge its hard to explain. you have to design it very smartly, and most people on this planet just dont know how to. you have ti design your own data structures, ones that are preferably smalled than 1476 bytes so they dont ge segmented. there is just so much you have to have its really complex. multi threaded. ... and on an on. im not saying its impossible, but improbably. like im more likely to get laid by supermans mom.

avansc wrote:... and on an on. im not saying its impossible, but improbably. like im more likely to get laid by supermans mom.

Do you mean his actual mother Lara(Or was it Lora?), or his 'foster' mother Mary? With Lara/Lora you have the whole ageless beauty thing, but I guess if you're into the older gals then please be gentle, because Mary's in her 70's this year ( on top of whatever age she started out as, which was at least 50 ). Intercourse with either mother: hilarious, by the way. I LOL'd.

To throw my uneducated two cents in, I'd have to say it's quite possible. From what I've seen in programming, you can always go back and add pieces or change pieces to accomodate new things. Thats why you're able to create what you want how you want to do it. I have to agree with the guy wanting to bone superman's mom, though, with saying that it would be difficult, but that would be the case ( or at least I assume would be the case ) for any MMO or network applicable game.

I do however know that there is a game engine designed with presets that can be manipulated to allow you to make not only a single player game, but multiplayer with much greater ease without so much coding on your part. Maybe start with using that, and then eventually work up to a larger network. Torque is currently the only one I'm aware of. You probably already knew this, and may even know of others. Thanks for listening.

Hyozan wrote:To throw my uneducated two cents in, I'd have to say it's quite possible. From what I've seen in programming, you can always go back and add pieces or change pieces to accomodate new things.

It really depends on how well you wrote everything, and how distinct your objects are. If they're too intertwined, then adding network code doesn't just mean rewriting IO, it can also mean ripping the guts out of the core system (conversations now need a target), totally rewriting collisions (lag, new possible collision targets, friendly fire), totally rewriting areas (now you have to support >1 person per area), and such.

If it's general enough and designed right in the first place, though, you might wind up with just removing the I/O and plugging in multithreaded networked I/O. That's in a perfect world, though. :)

Although it's definitely possible, especially on a small scale. For instance, I'm making a checkers game for my Intro to AI class and I get bonus points for making an actual GUI; I should just have to drop out Draw() and HandleInput() (console) and drop in new ones (SDL, mouse) :)

Nicely put Marauder. It certainly is possible, but only under the right circumstances (flexible code from the start), and even then would still be difficult. Regardless or whether or not you'll be able to "upgrade" (maybe rewrite would fit better here) the RPG in order for it to become a working MMORPG doesn't really matter right now.

I've seen it in my own code plenty of times: I'll create something that is right at the upper limits of my programming skills, continue working on other projects, then go back (a month, a year, 3 years) later and be stunned at how hideous my old programming habits now look to me.

By the time you finished the RPG (provided you do finish it) the code would be so outdated compared to your skills that you're probably WANT to rewrite the whole thing or start a whole new project (possibly the MMO) anyways.

Good luck with whichever path you choose, even if you make the mistake of starting too big, if you're truly interested in programming you can always go back down to a level you can handle and still have fun working your way back up.

dandymcgee wrote:I've seen it in my own code plenty of times: I'll create something that is right at the upper limits of my programming skills, continue working on other projects, then go back (a month, a year, 3 years) later and be stunned at how hideous my old programming habits now look to me.

Good point. I will admit that some my longer-term project got totally rewritten two or three times because the entire base was written using outdated techniques and styles.

MarauderIIC wrote:

dandymcgee wrote:I've seen it in my own code plenty of times: I'll create something that is right at the upper limits of my programming skills, continue working on other projects, then go back (a month, a year, 3 years) later and be stunned at how hideous my old programming habits now look to me.

Good point. I will admit that some my longer-term project got totally rewritten two or three times because the entire base was written using outdated techniques and styles.

Yeah.. My rewritten : original code ratio is 9 : 1

Even though I plan everything out, there is always something that needs to be added or taken away, made more efficient and so on.. It's impossible to say: "I'm gonna do it like this" and then carry out everything without a single look back (especially in big projects).

That is by far the best concept art i have seen in a long time.

Nice idea, too bad that it will never exist.