Elysian Shadows

Posted: **Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:55 pm**

Lol why do you people keep thinking im rushing. Im not, All i wanted to know was the questions i asked. Im not going to do anything with the answers other than put them in my memory bank (brain) for later on. As i said im not rushing lol. I dont plan on making a game until maybe 3-5 years from now, But thats because my school allows me to use their resources and create a game while i am there for my portfolio, its actually required to graduate.

Posted: **Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:00 pm**

I answered your questions...

And we're not even saying don't make a game, in fact it's essential to write code while you learn(it's a part of the learning process), what everyone is getting at is that creating something of high quality takes more than simply multimedia libraries you use and the programming languages you choose, it takes time, learning and patience.

I don't think any of us here are trying to in anyway to suggest you're taking things too fast, you simply asked us how programming relates to the games, and game programming libraries, we're just trying to give you an idea of how long you should expect to achieve your end goal.
so stop having a go at us!

Good luck, and start programming!

Posted: **Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:37 pm**

You don't have to wait until 3-5 years from now to make a game. Don't try to make a full-scale rpg until at least then, but games like tic tac toe (without AI), pacman (what I'm doing), tetris, etc. are perfectly fine. It's not necessarily a time requirement, it's your experience/skill level. I have *technically* been programming for between one and 1 1/2 years (I think; maybe less), but I am very good with logic, so it may take longer for you. Programming is something you must devote a lot of time and effort to, but you don't have to limit yourself too much. Stick with what you can do, while still challenging yourself. After a while, you will find you that you can do things you never thought you could. Learning to program is a long, (somewhat) lonely journey, but it brings with it many, many possibilities.

[/rant][/motivational speech][/lecture]

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:19 pm**

Well i use to compile WoW server emulators, and before i knew anything about C++ i basically taught myself enough to learn how to make a boss have AI, and use some LUA scripts i made for a cinematic scene.

I mean it wasnt much lol all he did was switch his weapon from sword to axe at 67% hp, Did a few powerful knockbacks/crits every 5 secs or so, switch his weapon from axe to staff at 30% hp, and cast a few blizzard attacks at 20% hp. Now that im learning c++ im recognizing what Boolians are and if statements. Because when i was messing around making that boss i was just looking at a tutorial i found on the dev site, and kept doing trial and error till it compiled without errors.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:37 am**

Aeolus wrote: For my second question, To make a game thats 3d like the one Trufun is working on or say a MMO like WoW or Knight Online, what does it consist of?

It's asinine to be planning that far in advance. It will seriously be years, you need to be focusing on what you can make now, and working on making that.
Stop acting all high and mighty, we're trying to give you a dose of reality. Because you picked up Lua scripting doesn't mean you're cut out for real coding, or anything even remotely related to sockets (ie, internet) programming.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:07 pm**

Lusikka is right.

Start small. Make a few 2D games, then start 3D. Don't start trying to make a client server architecture for a game until you are good at socket programming. Start with something like a chat program(1 on 1) then you add a conference mode like IRC, this will give you the understanding needed to do the same for games.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:22 pm**

From experience, if you don't do this, you'll find that what happens is that your code will be hard to update when you learn something new, and you'll be learning new things so often that keeping up with your old code in a large project will become impossible. Sort of like doing Riemman sums instead of integrals, but on a huge scale.

Edit: To answer your question about MMOs (I didn't see that anyone else did?) the skeleton of a MMO would probably consist of a 3D engine, multithreaded programming (handle input for thousands of players without making each player wait for his input to be processed), sockets, a server, a client, AI (on a massive scale, and the server has to do this, not the client or your AI is hacked -- so a massive, efficient scale), security, player input, database backend (due to # of players), and a big hurdle is compensating for lag and trusting the client -- was that a missed packet or did he cheat? etc. When you start having a large amount of players, you'll probably have a datacenter instead of a single computer, so you'd also have to look at synchronizing data processing between computers. The same computer might not handle the same player's input and output every time.

But I am not a development studio employee. :)

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:52 pm**

Lussikamage and MDK. Once again i said im not planning ahead, and not rushing, I just wanted to know what the MMO was MADE OF!

As for MarauderIIC, Thank you. I think you are the only one in the last few days to actually understand what i said... See since MarauderIIC answered it i now know what its made of, Is it going to stop me from learning c++... No, i just wanted to know cause i always wondered.

Sorry MDK and mage for yelling at you but i was getting mad at everyone thinking i was rushing, or thinking im "high and mighty" when all i wanted to know is what it was made of just so i have a better knowledge...

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:03 pm**

Aeolus wrote:Lussikamage and MDK. Once again i said im not planning ahead, and not rushing, I just wanted to know what the MMO was MADE OF!

As for MarauderIIC, Thank you. I think you are the only one in the last few days to actually understand what i said... See since MarauderIIC answered it i now know what its made of, Is it going to stop me from learning c++... No, i just wanted to know cause i always wondered.

Sorry MDK and mage for yelling at you but i was getting mad at everyone thinking i was rushing, or thinking im "high and mighty" when all i wanted to know is what it was made of just so i have a better knowledge...

I didn't think you were rushing, I was just giving some info from personal experience, think of it like homework you could do to build up your know how in the area of MMOs or multiplayer in general

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:06 pm**

You're welcome. If there's one thing I've learned in my years of mandatory CYA, it's that people want one of two things: an answer, or a promise :)

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:16 pm**

haha Marauder you are very smart haha, i didnt want personal experience or suggestions. Just the answer of what makes a MMO.

Oh ok so im on episode 21 of 55 on AntiRTFM videos. I want to know should i continue? Im not learning much. The next vids teach these:

Code: Select all

Tutorial (22)
* for loop


Tutorial (23)
* more on for loop
* break
* while loop
* do while loop


Tutorial (24)
* More on loops
* continue


(Updated)

Tutorial (25)
* Scope/Visibility in loops
* Conditional operator


Tutorial (26)
* switch statement


Tutorial (27)
* Declaration / Definition
* Passing variables to functions


Tutorial (28)
* Passing by value
* returning one result


Tutorial (29)
* Intro to OOP
* Partial syntax overview


Tutorial (30)
* classes are like variables
* member variables / methods
* creating an instance
* dot operator


Tutorial (31)
* OOP Design
* public / private
* public functions / private data


Tutorial (32)
* OOP Encapsulation
* Types of variables / Instances of variables


Tutorial (33)
* methods work exactly as functions
* ISO Standard C++
* Standard Library headers


Tutorial (34)
* creating arrays
* offset zero
* array boundaries


Tutorial (35)
* More on arrays
* standard string


Tutorial (36)
* member variable scope in methods
* passing a int rvalue (literal constant) into a function
* problem of using uninitialized member variables


Tutorial (37)
* (default) constructor
* making your own constructor
* passing to constructors
* initializer list


Tutorial (38)
* OOP Encapsulation
* class declaration / definition
* methods & functions- same rules (pretty much)


Tutorial (39)
class declarations in headers, definitions in source files.


Tutorial (40)
* source files are separate entities
* header files for declaration
* linker to the rescue


Tutorial wrap 1 (@ 40)
* some corrections
* comments


Tutorial wrap 2 (@ 40)
* more on comments
* more on passing into functions
* more on returning from functions


Tutorial wrap 3 (@ 40)
* casting basic types
* name clashes


Tutorial wrap 4 (@ 40)
* standard c++


Tutorial wrap 5 (@ 40)
* passing custom types
* returning custom types
* class scope


Tutorial wrap 6 (@ 40)
* warning - stay tuned


Tutorial wrap 7 (@ 40)
* cross-referencing c++ concepts


Tutorial (41)
* problem of scope limitations


Tutorial (42)
* variables in RAM
* memory addresses


Tutorial (43)
* address operator
* pointers


Tutorial (44)
* using pointers
* overcoming scope


Tutorial (45)
* more about pointers
* arrays are pointers


Tutorial (46)
* dangers of pointers


Tutorial (47)
* more dangers of pointers

And right next to me i have 2 beginner books, C++ programming for the absolute beginner, and The Beginners guide to C++ (which is huge btw, i think it might be bigger than a bible and the last harry potter book put together) lol.

So i mean i could just start reading a Chapter a day instead of watching 5 videos for a hour.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:19 pm**

Most of those are covered in the start of most C++ for beginners books. What I would do if you have time -- I would read, and then watch (perhaps at accelerated speed). If you read read read read and then watch later, you won't want to watch because you'll already know it and you won't get another point of view. If you can only do one: read.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:24 pm**

I would read the book, as long as you're patient, you will find it gives you so much more than listening to tutorials IMO.

as for big books, I havea massive book called "C++ : the complete reference", and it's 1005 pages long, reading it makes your arm ache! (but by god I can't put the thing down)

I also hate the name of anitRTFM's tutorials , the term "absolute n00b spoonfeed" would just put me off if I was starting out

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:24 pm**

K well i work 6 hours a day 4 days a week, then i work out 2 hours a day, Set homework for myself in C++ since im not going to college till 5-6 months from now, and then i play warhammer online in my free time.

Ok so ill read/watch, read a chapter then watch 2 episodes.

Thanks Marauder

Edit: @ programmer,

Yeah that book is on my list to buy lol. Also yeah the noob thing pissed me off, im not a noob when it comes to most things, I tend to teach myself or watch videos and i still learn at a accelerated level.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:28 pm**

I'm incredibly biased, but I just find reading so much better for learning a programming language (and programming itself).

I tried using video tutorials a few years back now, and they did NOTHING for me, it wasn't until I got real and started reading programming references that I started to understand what I was doing (referring to Cplusplus.com frequently was also a massive help, I used it very much like I use SDL's DocWiki pages now)

Elysian Shadows

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