Elysian Shadows

Oh god i cant believe I'm doing this knowing the barrage of slurs I'll receive.

In my opinion men on average are better programmers that woman. (I'm not saying that I'm one of these men that are better, or that woman on this site are of those that are worse)
I say this because i think that men in general are more logical than woman, and woman are more emotional than men.

Think about it. Boys grow up playing with LEGO® and sand and just general stuff that require on to develop and apply logical skills.
Girls on the other hand, play with dolls and role play, this makes them develop their emotional sides as well as becoming master manipulators. jk.

Anyways, that just my take on it. i don't preclude all woman and all men. Just a generalization.

avansc wrote:Oh god i cant believe I'm doing this knowing the barrage of slurs I'll receive.

In my opinion men on average are better programmers that woman. (I'm not saying that I'm one of these men that are better, or that woman on this site are of those that are worse)
I say this because i think that men in general are more logical than woman, and woman are more emotional than men.

Think about it. Boys grow up playing with LEGO® and sand and just general stuff that require on to develop and apply logical skills.
Girls on the other hand, play with dolls and role play, this makes them develop their emotional sides as well as becoming master manipulators. jk.

Anyways, that just my take on it. i don't preclude all woman and all men. Just a generalization.

I grew up playing legos and video games. :P Always cared more about building the towns than playing with the little peoples.

I think this would be true "on average" only because there are so few women programmers. There are so few women programmers because for some reason they're conditioned away from video games and more technical things.
(Think about it, on TV cartoons kids are always saying "Ew, I hate math!" so kids think they should hate math. In public school girls are conditioned to care about their appearance and that school is stupid)

mmm.. well i wanna respectfully disagree, i dont think that being conditioned to look "good" or take care of your appearance has anything to do with your capabilities on any subject.
that personally just sounds like something a person that got good grades but wasent in the "popular" group would say. now im not saying thats you motivation, but its the same as what the popular girls would say she is good in math because she is conditioned not to care about her looks.... it goes both ways.

I don't even see how this argument can be qualified, except for "on average"; There are no olympics of programming. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I'm less than any arbitrary man.
There are programmers that are better and that are worse, and yes, the coders better than me are men... but then again, I don't know any other women who program.

Moosader wrote:I don't even see how this argument can be qualified, except for "on average"; There are no olympics of programming. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I'm less than any arbitrary man.
There are programmers that are better and that are worse, and yes, the coders better than me are men... but then again, I don't know any other women who program.

ummm.... i never said you were.
i just stated that your comment about "conditioning" was suspect at best.
guys are portrayed in movies and tv shows to be the lesser to woman in school. its always the boy needing a tutor. and not even from a professional, usually a peer female student.
but that does not mean that translates to real live. boys watch the same shows that girls do.
buys have the same pressures to look "good" be a star athlete be a rebel.

so your argument is just flawed in logic, which brings us full circle to my first post. (i hope you can see the humor in that statement)

ps: i know a lot of very good programmers that do it for a living. its not like you are a rare breed, so dont kid yourself.

I didn't mean so much TV conditioning young women to not go towards computers, but peer pressure. They're supposed to worry about boys and their looks.

Similarly, (at least with the poor school my mom works at), the black kids act like if you study you're trying to be "white", so they discourage themselves from learning.

(Btw, you just claiming my logic is flawed doesn't mean that it is so; Kids are influenced by media.)

avansc wrote:mmm.. well i wanna respectfully disagree, i dont think that being conditioned to look "good" or take care of your appearance has anything to do with your capabilities on any subject.
that personally just sounds like something a person that got good grades but wasent in the "popular" group would say. now im not saying thats you motivation, but its the same as what the popular girls would say she is good in math because she is conditioned not to care about her looks.... it goes both ways.

I completely disagree... Lusikka I'm with you because all the girls I know, except the ones that grew up around videogames with their relatives seem to be the stereotypes... as I'm sitting here righting this it I realize it doesn't capture what I want to say... but I couldn't think of any other way... I'm out of caffiene leave me alone!

Edit: What I'm trying to say is people immitate what they know. They are taught at a young age that looks are what is important, granted their are some that grow up to be individuals no matter what, but mostly it's the way lusikka said...

avansc wrote:

Moosader wrote:I don't even see how this argument can be qualified, except for "on average"; There are no olympics of programming. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I'm less than any arbitrary man.
There are programmers that are better and that are worse, and yes, the coders better than me are men... but then again, I don't know any other women who program.

ummm.... i never said you were.
i just stated that your comment about "conditioning" was suspect at best.
guys are portrayed in movies and tv shows to be the lesser to woman in school. its always the boy needing a tutor. and not even from a professional, usually a peer female student.
but that does not mean that translates to real live. boys watch the same shows that girls do.
buys have the same pressures to look "good" be a star athlete be a rebel.

so your argument is just flawed in logic, which brings us full circle to my first post. (i hope you can see the humor in that statement)

ps: i know a lot of very good programmers that do it for a living. its not like you are a rare breed, so dont kid yourself.

Yes but women are more emotional and care more about what people say...

Let me ask one question to all..

Do black people make better sprinters than whites or any other race for that matter?
Be honest with your self, and if the answer you come to is yes.

Then perhaps the statement "gender X make for better programmers that gender Y" is not so silly as one might think.

avansc wrote: Do black people make better sprinters than whites or any other race for that matter?
Be honest with your self, and if the answer you come to is yes.

NO.

People originally from Africa are better sprinters. The reason for that is pure evolution - there are many small reasons for it, but the main ones are:
a) they lived in an area where the food is scares and can run fast, so they developed the ability to run.
b) they developed in a very hot climate, so their body is taller to get away from the heat coming from the ground, thus making them more capable of running.

kost.

ps. hehe.. just joined and already getting into a forum war

kostiak2 wrote:

avansc wrote: Do black people make better sprinters than whites or any other race for that matter?
Be honest with your self, and if the answer you come to is yes.

NO.

People originally from Africa are better sprinters. The reason for that is pure evolution - there are many small reasons for it, but the main ones are:
a) they lived in an area where the food is scares and can run fast, so they developed the ability to run.
b) they developed in a very hot climate, so their body is taller to get away from the heat coming from the ground, thus making them more capable of running.

kost.

ps. hehe.. just joined and already getting into a forum war

I dont know if i would call it war.. yet. jk.

Okay... well... my ancestors moved to Africa in the 16's and i was born there and I'm not fast. i am white however. (i know this time frame does not fall under the theory of evolution) secondly, all humanoid life forms come from what is now known as Africa, and yet not all of them can sprint that fast.
you logic does not carry water. I suggest you revise your theory or come to the conclusion that blacks are better sprinters and that there is a possibility that genders also have superiority in some fields over the other sex.

avansc wrote: Okay... well... my ancestors moved to Africa in the 16's and i was born there and I'm not fast. i am white however. (i know this time frame does not fall under the theory of evolution) secondly, all humanoid life forms come from what is now known as Africa, and yet not all of them can sprint that fast.
you logic does not carry water. I suggest you revise your theory or come to the conclusion that blacks are better sprinters and that there is a possibility that genders also have superiority in some fields over the other sex.

All life forms originate from Africa that's right, but some moved to other parts of the world and developed differently. For example Europe is caller, so people are shorter, etc.

"Gender" does not exist anthropologically, instead there is a concept closer to "Geographical Origin", so people who genetically (dating back to about the stone age or later, when humans started to live in other places in the world) originated from Africa have those attributes.

For example, someone who is 7/8 white and 1/8 African, can still have the sprinting ability, thanks to his geographic origin genes.

kost.

kostiak2 wrote:

avansc wrote: Okay... well... my ancestors moved to Africa in the 16's and i was born there and I'm not fast. i am white however. (i know this time frame does not fall under the theory of evolution) secondly, all humanoid life forms come from what is now known as Africa, and yet not all of them can sprint that fast.
you logic does not carry water. I suggest you revise your theory or come to the conclusion that blacks are better sprinters and that there is a possibility that genders also have superiority in some fields over the other sex.

All life forms originate from Africa that's right, but some moved to other parts of the world and developed differently. For example Europe is caller, so people are shorter, etc.

"Gender" does not exist anthropologically, instead there is a concept closer to "Geographical Origin", so people who genetically (dating back to about the stone age or later, when humans started to live in other places in the world) originated from Africa have those attributes.

For example, someone who is 7/8 white and 1/8 African, can still have the sprinting ability, thanks to his geographic origin genes.

kost.

I said all humans.
Anyways, you couldn't be more wrong about gender and anthropology, in anthropology there are multiple models of gender in any given culture or race.
Here is a book for you to read : "The subject of anthropology: gender, symbolism and psychoanalysis" by Henrietta L. Moore.
Men and Woman are not the same, don't share all the same abilities.

I AM NOT SAYING MEN ARE SMARTER THEN WOMAN!!!!!

Only that the possibility is there that a gender in a specified race can have more capacity in one are than the other. this does not make me sexist.
People feelings and ego's get bruised by a comment like this, and that's fine that's a normal reaction, but to simply deny the possibility.....

avansc wrote: I said all humans.
Anyways, you couldn't be more wrong about gender and anthropology, in anthropology there are multiple models of gender in any given culture or race.
Here is a book for you to read : "The subject of anthropology: gender, symbolism and psychoanalysis" by Henrietta L. Moore.
Men and Woman are not the same, don't share all the same abilities.

I AM NOT SAYING MEN ARE SMARTER THEN WOMAN!!!!!

Only that the possibility is there that a gender in a specified race can have more capacity in one are than the other. this does not make me sexist.
People feelings and ego's get bruised by a comment like this, and that's fine that's a normal reaction, but to simply deny the possibility.....

As I said, "race" is not a factor in anthropology, it's "geographical origin".

About Woman vs Man: Of course they are different, thats the whole idea .

Oh and did you see me arguing against your "woman vs man" point? It is a valid theory in that, some researches find that men in general are oriented towards the left brain (logic) and women towards the right brain (fellings). And programing is considered a left brain activity. So there IS some underlaying truth to it, but is a VERY VERY loose point, and does not prove men are better in programing. It's so loose, I don't wont to argue about it even.

Besides, every rule has an exeption, and every human is different, so..

" "Gender" does not exist anthropologically, instead there is a concept closer to "Geographical Origin" "
-kostiak2

you are staring to talk yourself into corners.