Elysian Shadows

Trask wrote:I find it completely awesome to create something out of nothing or to work on things in similar fashions to those in the industry whom I respect.

Totally agree with this.

As Avansc said, almost everything that friend of yours takes for granted is completely dependent upon the programs that make up its foundation.

Why in the world would you write a novel? or paint a picture or sketch a picture? Why make a desk or a chair? Just like any skills, programming is the Painter, Musician, Carpenter and ect of the 21st century. Its an art


or why the hell would you run? you get tired and sore, its a pain in the ass, but people enjoy it, but why? or lifting weights, no one want to lift heavy ass wights but they all want that great physique, you got to do what you got to do.

I think that programming is just like any other great medium whether it be film, art, music, or literature. Imho, there is nothing more satisfying than turning your dreams and ideas that pop into your head a reality. It's my means of sharing ideas just as a pen was Russeau's or the canvas was Picasso's. I also love the fact that it's something that very few people can (or want) to do. I relish it when people call me a psychopath for being a graphics programmer as soon as they see an if statement. Not everyone will like it, just like not everyone likes to write poetry, but I love the challenge. Plus, people like the elysian dev team and myself (sometimes) prove that the nerdy programmer stereotype is just as easy to falsify as any other. my 2c.

Automagician23 wrote: Plus, people like the elysian dev team and myself (sometimes) prove that the nerdy programmer stereotype is just as easy to falsify as any other. my 2c.

totally true! :D

Automagician23 wrote:I think that programming is just like any other great medium whether it be film, art, music, or literature. Imho, there is nothing more satisfying than turning your dreams and ideas that pop into your head a reality. It's my means of sharing ideas just as a pen was Russeau's or the canvas was Picasso's. I also love the fact that it's something that very few people can (or want) to do. I relish it when people call me a psychopath for being a graphics programmer as soon as they see an if statement. Not everyone will like it, just like not everyone likes to write poetry, but I love the challenge. Plus, people like the elysian dev team and myself (sometimes) prove that the nerdy programmer stereotype is just as easy to falsify as any other. my 2c.

to you and others that went along these line.. not that i dont think there is a certain artistry to programming, i think people are trying to romanticize it a bit too much. yes there are people who express them selves through programming but more though the actual art that gets done in games.. a programmer in the strict sense does not do art. yes, its more prevalent in indy game development only because you are forced to do that. but if you are a programmer for a major company, chances are you will not get to see/add your flavor of "art". your art will be behind the scenes. there will be someone that knows nothing of programming that will do the art.

my point is this i guess. programming's main goal is not to be elegant or artistic, or even to express ideas, its main goal is the automation of tasks we humans use in every day life, or tasks that can benefit us. especially task that repeat and need to be repeated alot.

note that im not implying in any means that one should not use programming to express yourself, or be artistic, i encourage that and think its a wonderful practice.

avansc wrote:
to you and others that went along these line.. not that i dont think there is a certain artistry to programming, i think people are trying to romanticize it a bit too much. yes there are people who express them selves through programming but more though the actual art that gets done in games.. a programmer in the strict sense does not do art. yes, its more prevalent in indy game development only because you are forced to do that. but if you are a programmer for a major company, chances are you will not get to see/add your flavor of "art". your art will be behind the scenes. there will be someone that knows nothing of programming that will do the art.

yeah, I probably went a little overboard...it happens. But I do have to agree with you on a lot of that avansc. I was just trying present a view where what we do has meaning and purpose other than creating menial programs to allow people to live 21st century lives (though I don't refute their importance).

Interesting conversation. I've never come across such a question before...

If you are to ask this sort of question, then I think we can actually broaden it to, "What's the point of life?". Then it just becomes a big mess

I see programming just like I see any other field of science, whether it is physics, mathematics, biology, chemistry, etc... They are all very interesting and have contributed greatly towards advancing human civilization. To me, it's like magic... that we are able to do so many awesome things thanks to programming. But what drives me towards programming the most is that it's where the future is headed.

And as others have said here, the stereotype of the "geek" programmer is false. If you were to meet me in person, you wouldn't know that I was a programmer unless I brought it up. Some people are indeed just lazy.

Programming isn't for everybody though, you have to find what's right for you.

I firstly played some games MMOs mostly. But I was playing like 3 hours a week, not to much.
Then there was x game that is about to be relised. I saw its buty of art, composition and world.
Then I though, someone created this.

HOW?
Then I started reasrching. I learned that beutiful stuf in that game is created in 3D modeling programs. I had
3Ds MAX 2010. And I started learning to model those charachters, mountens and stuf like that. But soon as I started
I realise that it was somehow dead. It was like creating something and at same time creating nothing(no hard feelings). So I wanted to learn what brings all
those models alive. What makes them move, run, interact. That is for me biggest art in programing, making things alive. I thought real art of game are trees, landscapes, but now I know I as wrong.

Programing for me is art, it makes things alive.

So here I am learning C#..

o_O


So computers can be more than space heaters.

dandymcgee wrote:Programming - How smart people have fun

This

So, maybe I am not the right type of person for programming.

I like it, but even though I am more than half-way through the book I am learning C++ with, I keep thinking, "I've spent a couple of months learning this language, and I haven't even made anything close to a real game yet, just games with text output, so what's the point?".

Shouldn't I be excited to know how to program if I am suited for programming?

I want to do something more artistic in the industry.
Shall I try my hand at 3ds max?

The Great wrote:So, maybe I am not the right type of person for programming.

I like it, but even though I am more than half-way through the book I am learning C++ with, I keep thinking, "I've spent a couple of months learning this language, and I haven't even made anything close to a real game yet, just games with text output, so what's the point?".

Shouldn't I be excited to know how to program if I am suited for programming?

I want to do something more artistic in the industry.
Shall I try my hand at 3ds max?

Well in the beginning C++ wasn't much fun for me either, learning syntax is definitely rough. Still, if you feel like art is more your thing, you should definitely try your hand some modeling.

I'd recommend you stick with it, C++ is a complicated language and it'll take a long time to learn but it'll be worth it. This forum is full of people who are willing to help you with any problems you may have. The way I see it you have already put a couple of months towards learning why throw away a couple of months worth of learning? Keep at it and you will make progress. I think you'd benefit from reading the book all the way through and then reading it through a second time taking time to learn the parts that you find difficult to understand. If you find something hard then the internet is a good resource; research topics and then break technical stuff down so that its understandable. I think that learning anything is an investment; you are putting time towards learning something so that you can reap the rewards later. I'd encourage you to stick with it completely as you may regret it completely in the future. Have you considered learning a game orientated language such as blitzplus or a programming language that is less complex for a beginner such as vb? you may find that you are able to make more progress with one of these languages and you can then return to C++ with a few games under your belt and a better understanding of programming in general. At the end of the day I think that the only reason you aren't enjoying it is because you don't know enough to do anything with it, you should find ways to keep yourself motivated and keep at it.

If you want to do something more 'artistic' then there are all sorts of different things you can consider e.g. 2d pixel art, 3d modelling, texturing etc. as with programming there are people on this forum who can assist you with anything you have difficulty with and the internet is a good resource you just need to go looking for the information you need.
Good Luck

ChrissyJ91 wrote:I'd recommend you stick with it, C++ is a complicated language and it'll take a long time to learn but it'll be worth it. This forum is full of people who are willing to help you with any problems you may have. The way I see it you have already put a couple of months towards learning why throw away a couple of months worth of learning? Keep at it and you will make progress. I think you'd benefit from reading the book all the way through and then reading it through a second time taking time to learn the parts that you find difficult to understand. If you find something hard then the internet is a good resource; research topics and then break technical stuff down so that its understandable. I think that learning anything is an investment; you are putting time towards learning something so that you can reap the rewards later. I'd encourage you to stick with it completely as you may regret it completely in the future. Have you considered learning a game orientated language such as blitzplus or a programming language that is less complex for a beginner such as vb? you may find that you are able to make more progress with one of these languages and you can then return to C++ with a few games under your belt and a better understanding of programming in general. At the end of the day I think that the only reason you aren't enjoying it is because you don't know enough to do anything with it, you should find ways to keep yourself motivated and keep at it.

If you want to do something more 'artistic' then there are all sorts of different things you can consider e.g. 2d pixel art, 3d modelling, texturing etc. as with programming there are people on this forum who can assist you with anything you have difficulty with and the internet is a good resource you just need to go looking for the information you need.
Good Luck

Quite a motivating response .
I feel I've always had more of a technical inclination than an artistic.
It's not the difficulty of it, but just how I feel when I put in work to learn the language and I haven't made much yet I guess...

I'm off to learn references, whether I like it or not, because I'm hoping that the inspired-feeling good times I have with programming will outweigh the unmotivated bad times.

Edit: Does anyone know of any way to copy source code into Word without the formatting getting messed up?

Programming is something for the people that like to create something out of nothing... The fact that nothing more then your time and knowledge (and a computer) can be made into anything you dream of creating is what keeps me so interested. It also kind of makes me happy knowing that I can do things that a lot of people would have no idea trying to figure out, kind of like being cryptic and mysterious.