Why do people hate teams?

[Innerscope]

I also am not a fan of someone who takes a "designer" role on a small team. If you're on a team of 2-3 people and one of them has the exclusive responsibility of being the "designer", you're getting used. I once naively joined a small team consisting of me (programmer), an artist (who was quite good, by the way), and a "designer". While the designer was a nice guy and contributed plenty of ideas and a solid vision, it tore me apart every day to slave for hours on end implementing ideas that I could just as easily have come up with on my own. My bitterness grew every time he demanded a feature that I knew would create difficult technical challenges for me to solve. Why was I slaving away for someone else's ideas? I have a problem with people who overvalue themselves this way; I'm not saying that designers are never needed, but in this case, his contributions were not providing much added value to the team despite the fact that he expected an equal share of any profits.

I couldn't possibly agree with that statement more. I also have a never ending bias against "designers." One guy should not dream up the whole game and tell his slaves what to go implement. I call bullshit.

Same here really from no experience but from other things thate people come up with the ideas but really don't contribute. A "designer" role should be filled in by a whiteboard marker and a earaser

I think someone could be just the "designer", this is a really important position. A good designer will be able to come up with the implementation (possibly outlined in pseudo code) so that programmers are able to code it. I think the problem with amateur dev teams is that the "designer" has no experience (as do the other members), and is therefore not really a "designer" at all. As mentioned they are usually just "idea men", and probably have lots of gaming experience, but no clue on how to make games.

[Falco Girgis]

I also am not a fan of someone who takes a "designer" role on a small team. If you're on a team of 2-3 people and one of them has the exclusive responsibility of being the "designer", you're getting used. I once naively joined a small team consisting of me (programmer), an artist (who was quite good, by the way), and a "designer". While the designer was a nice guy and contributed plenty of ideas and a solid vision, it tore me apart every day to slave for hours on end implementing ideas that I could just as easily have come up with on my own. My bitterness grew every time he demanded a feature that I knew would create difficult technical challenges for me to solve. Why was I slaving away for someone else's ideas? I have a problem with people who overvalue themselves this way; I'm not saying that designers are never needed, but in this case, his contributions were not providing much added value to the team despite the fact that he expected an equal share of any profits.

I couldn't possibly agree with that statement more. I also have a never ending bias against "designers." One guy should not dream up the whole game and tell his slaves what to go implement. I call bullshit.

Same here really from no experience but from other things thate people come up with the ideas but really don't contribute. A "designer" role should be filled in by a whiteboard marker and a earaser

I think someone could be just the "designer", this is a really important position. A good designer will be able to come up with the implementation (possibly outlined in pseudo code) so that programmers are able to code it. I think the problem with amateur dev teams is that the "designer" has no experience (as do the other members), and is therefore not really a "designer" at all. As mentioned they are usually just "idea men", and probably have lots of gaming experience, but no clue on how to make games.

In order for that to be possible (a designer coming up with a psuedocode implementation), the designer would have to be a programmer also.

I just don't see an indie team staying motivated with a single man delegated to decide how the game "should be." I don't see talented artists, programmers, or musicians wanting to be the bitches who blindly implement another man's vision. Call me arrogant, but there is no way in fuck that I (or anybody on our team) would be cool with that.

[dandymcgee]

In order for that to be possible (a designer coming up with a psuedocode implementation), the designer would have to be a programmer also.

I just don't see an indie team staying motivated with a single man delegated to decide how the game "should be." I don't see talented artists, programmers, or musicians wanting to be the bitches who blindly implement another man's vision. Call me arrogant, but there is no way in fuck that I (or anybody on our team) would be cool with that.

Exactly. Professional "game designers" are generally focusing more on things such as a balanced in-game economy than coming up with the entire game by themselves. Ideally, everyone on the team should be contributing ideas. This helps to ensure that many people will enjoy a game rather than just the few who share similar interests with a dictating designer.

[Innerscope]

In order for that to be possible (a designer coming up with a psuedocode implementation), the designer would have to be a programmer also.

Yeah, that's the idea. I can't think of one professional game designer who doesn't also know how to code.

I just don't see an indie team staying motivated with a single man delegated to decide how the game "should be." I don't see talented artists, programmers, or musicians wanting to be the bitches who blindly implement another man's vision. Call me arrogant, but there is no way in fuck that I (or anybody on our team) would be cool with that.

I think we can agree that in amateur game dev having one designer doesn't work. I can see it working for a larger team with more experience though.

Exactly. Professional "game designers" are generally focusing more on things such as a balanced in-game economy than coming up with the entire game by themselves. Ideally, everyone on the team should be contributing ideas. This helps to ensure that many people will enjoy a game rather than just the few who share similar interests with a dictating designer.

Yea, I agree with most of what you're saying, and I'll add that my view of the designer is not a dictator who doesn't listen to others, but someone who will combine others ideas and implement them into a cohesive gaming experience. That would include rejecting some ideas, but with valid reasons from a programmatic and game-play centric point of view.

[OmegaGDS]

Well, I hate teams mostly because mine never meets. I mean, my brother and I work everyday, but the other two guys throw around ideas. Luckily, we don't have a designer, just a bunch of programmers and one of them works on graphics. Unfortunately, we can't agree to a storyline.. not that it's a problem because we haven't gotten that far. It sucks because having conflicting views means that work gets done.. then it gets scrapped for another idea, then again, then again, then soon you just want to quit and it becomes a bitch to work with others. Luckily we don't fight. But there are differently conflicting ideas about storyline....

[K-Bal]

So what about teaming up with your brother and making a game with two people? The lesson to learn is to cut yourself off from people that don't get their shit done.

[OmegaGDS]

So what about teaming up with your brother and making a game with two people? The lesson to learn is to cut yourself off from people that don't get their shit done.

very good idea... I just don't want to be mean. I do enjoy when he is here, but thats almost never. I have already cut one person who joined and never showed up. Most of the shit getting done is by me or my brother.

[K-Bal]

So what about teaming up with your brother and making a game with two people? The lesson to learn is to cut yourself off from people that don't get their shit done.

very good idea... I just don't want to be mean. I do enjoy when he is here, but thats almost never. I have already cut one person who joined and never showed up. Most of the shit getting done is by me or my brother.

It's not being mean but realistic. If your friend has more brain cells than a slice of toast he will understand that he has not deserved a place in your team. Next time choose more carefully with who you team up.

[davidthefat]

IDK about you, team work can be hard, I mean Im in robotics and football, especially in football, one guy messes up the whole play can go down the drain. Im one of the programmers on the team and we have little groups, the programmers, the welders, electronics, design and ect. so there is like 3 active programmers, including me, we have to trust that the electronics can get their work done in time for us to program, but the electronics are waiting for the designs and stuff, its all dependent on each other. People will shoot down your ideas like you are the enemy, exploiting the weaknesses of your idea and how it will fail and ect. then eventually the final robot ends up sub par and mediocre... My ideas get shot down just like that

[OmegaGDS]

IDK about you, team work can be hard, I mean Im in robotics and football, especially in football, one guy messes up the whole play can go down the drain. Im one of the programmers on the team and we have little groups, the programmers, the welders, electronics, design and ect. so there is like 3 active programmers, including me, we have to trust that the electronics can get their work done in time for us to program, but the electronics are waiting for the designs and stuff, its all dependent on each other. People will shoot down your ideas like you are the enemy, exploiting the weaknesses of your idea and how it will fail and ect. then eventually the final robot ends up sub par and mediocre... My ideas get shot down just like that

What is the name of your robotics team, sounds like you're on my team

[davidthefat]

IDK about you, team work can be hard, I mean Im in robotics and football, especially in football, one guy messes up the whole play can go down the drain. Im one of the programmers on the team and we have little groups, the programmers, the welders, electronics, design and ect. so there is like 3 active programmers, including me, we have to trust that the electronics can get their work done in time for us to program, but the electronics are waiting for the designs and stuff, its all dependent on each other. People will shoot down your ideas like you are the enemy, exploiting the weaknesses of your idea and how it will fail and ect. then eventually the final robot ends up sub par and mediocre... My ideas get shot down just like that

What is the name of your robotics team, sounds like you're on my team

Its for FIRST robotics, FRC

[OmegaGDS]

IDK about you, team work can be hard, I mean Im in robotics and football, especially in football, one guy messes up the whole play can go down the drain. Im one of the programmers on the team and we have little groups, the programmers, the welders, electronics, design and ect. so there is like 3 active programmers, including me, we have to trust that the electronics can get their work done in time for us to program, but the electronics are waiting for the designs and stuff, its all dependent on each other. People will shoot down your ideas like you are the enemy, exploiting the weaknesses of your idea and how it will fail and ect. then eventually the final robot ends up sub par and mediocre... My ideas get shot down just like that

What is the name of your robotics team, sounds like you're on my team

Its for FIRST robotics, FRC

I know, I'm on an FRC team too, thats why I wanted to know your team name

[davidthefat]

IDK about you, team work can be hard, I mean Im in robotics and football, especially in football, one guy messes up the whole play can go down the drain. Im one of the programmers on the team and we have little groups, the programmers, the welders, electronics, design and ect. so there is like 3 active programmers, including me, we have to trust that the electronics can get their work done in time for us to program, but the electronics are waiting for the designs and stuff, its all dependent on each other. People will shoot down your ideas like you are the enemy, exploiting the weaknesses of your idea and how it will fail and ect. then eventually the final robot ends up sub par and mediocre... My ideas get shot down just like that

What is the name of your robotics team, sounds like you're on my team

Its for FIRST robotics, FRC

I know, I'm on an FRC team too, thats why I wanted to know your team name

LOL IDK the team name, its my first year doing it, so IDK LOL

[OmegaGDS]

well then, greetings from my team (team 2856 "planetary drive"), and we'll see you there