Elysian Shadows

hayk0510 wrote:

wtetzner wrote: I want it. Could you post the link?
Haskell is a cool language, but I don't know if I'd want to use it for game programming. Games have a need to keep state, and in my experience Haskell isn't really the best choice for that kind of thing. Although if it's to use Haskell's concurrency features, like STM, then I suppose it would make sense.

I'm partial to Clojure, but I suppose most game developers don't want to use a language that runs on the JVM, since they need them to run on consoles.

Anyway, I'd like to see what they had to say about using Haskell for game development.
And in any case, switching to Haskell would almost certainly cause games to be more stable .

Here is the link.. but it's a slide show, so you will have to DL it.

http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/se ... sweeny.pdf


Sorry for being so late, I don't come around these forums much.
I found it really interesting, I hope you enjoy it.

im sorry, what kindergarten did you get that slide from again?
i just cant take anything they say in there seriously.

avansc wrote:

hayk0510 wrote:

wtetzner wrote: I want it. Could you post the link?
Haskell is a cool language, but I don't know if I'd want to use it for game programming. Games have a need to keep state, and in my experience Haskell isn't really the best choice for that kind of thing. Although if it's to use Haskell's concurrency features, like STM, then I suppose it would make sense.

I'm partial to Clojure, but I suppose most game developers don't want to use a language that runs on the JVM, since they need them to run on consoles.

Anyway, I'd like to see what they had to say about using Haskell for game development.
And in any case, switching to Haskell would almost certainly cause games to be more stable .

Here is the link.. but it's a slide show, so you will have to DL it.

http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/se ... sweeny.pdf


Sorry for being so late, I don't come around these forums much.
I found it really interesting, I hope you enjoy it.

im sorry, what kindergarten did you get that slide from again?
i just cant take anything they say in there seriously.

I was asked to post them. If they bother you that much, I guess you can email the author, Tim Sweeney, and ask him to change it.

For those who don't know who Tim Sweeney is, he is the founder of Epic Games and the person behind the Unreal Engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Sweene ... developer)

From the article:

"Sweeney is frequently considered the counter-part to another famous game programmer, John Carmack. Both are industry leaders in game engine design..."

hey douchebag, i was obviously just making fun of the crayons and so on, not being to serious there...
ive actually seen Mr sweeney drive around in his lambo, i live 10 min from epic games.

ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

10 programmers is all you need when you have a full engine in place already I guess?
Who knows...

LeonBlade wrote:

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

10 programmers is all you need when you have a full engine in place already I guess?
Who knows...

My thoughts exactly

Back on topic I've decided to start with Java and later move to C/++. Thanks for all advice.



Peace,
Zach

avansc wrote:hey douchebag, i was obviously just making fun of the crayons and so on, not being to serious there...
ive actually seen Mr sweeney drive around in his lambo, i live 10 min from epic games.

My apologies for misunderstanding. But really, there is no need for name calling.

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

Are you familiar with Brooke's Law?

“Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later”

This is because the number of programmers increases linearly but the connection between these programmers and the complexity of cooperation increase exponentially. It is not uncommon for software to be built by small groups of awesome programmers.

ZachO wrote:Back on topic I've decided to start with Java and later move to C/++. Thanks for all advice.

Good luck. Remember, you never stop learning.. so have fun with it.

hayk0510 wrote:

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

Are you familiar with Brooke's Law?

“Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later”

This is because the number of programmers increases linearly but the connection between these programmers and the complexity of cooperation increase exponentially. It is not uncommon for software to be built by small groups of awesome programmers.

I experienced it first hand... My robotics team has 3 programmers, including me and all they do is slow me down, even the lead programmer, I doubt he know what he is doing, but hes alright, but the 3rd guy on the other hand is a pain in the ass... He wont shut up, ans when it was clearly me doing all the work and hes just staring at me typing code, hes like "Yea WE did it, team work, yea, we all 3 did it" Im like what ever, since the teacher clearly knows Im doing all the work, seriously they cant even get solenoids working by them selves... I was like 3 hours late for the meeting and they have been trying the whole time to figure it out, It literally took me 1 minute to figure it out and type it in and it worked... I should have gotten the lead programmer position, but he got it because of his seniority. I really can't trust them to even write a piece of code, they don't know what a struct is (we were using C for practice robots) and they barely know how to use an API document... Just face palm

Yea I sound cocky, but its just the truth, the only one I trust with the code is the Lead programmer

C was actually very easy for me to learn, but then again I had a good book.

hayk0510 wrote:

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

Are you familiar with Brooke's Law?

“Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later”

This is because the number of programmers increases linearly but the connection between these programmers and the complexity of cooperation increase exponentially. It is not uncommon for software to be built by small groups of awesome programmers.

You should read dreaming in code, it has tons of quotes like that

davidthefat wrote:

hayk0510 wrote:

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

Are you familiar with Brooke's Law?

“Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later”

This is because the number of programmers increases linearly but the connection between these programmers and the complexity of cooperation increase exponentially. It is not uncommon for software to be built by small groups of awesome programmers.

I experienced it first hand... My robotics team has 3 programmers, including me and all they do is slow me down, even the lead programmer, I doubt he know what he is doing, but hes alright, but the 3rd guy on the other hand is a pain in the ass... He wont shut up, ans when it was clearly me doing all the work and hes just staring at me typing code, hes like "Yea WE did it, team work, yea, we all 3 did it" Im like what ever, since the teacher clearly knows Im doing all the work, seriously they cant even get solenoids working by them selves... I was like 3 hours late for the meeting and they have been trying the whole time to figure it out, It literally took me 1 minute to figure it out and type it in and it worked... I should have gotten the lead programmer position, but he got it because of his seniority. I really can't trust them to even write a piece of code, they don't know what a struct is (we were using C for practice robots) and they barely know how to use an API document... Just face palm

Yea I sound cocky, but its just the truth, the only one I trust with the code is the Lead programmer

I basically got stuck in electronics(wiring) and mechanics on my robotics team for a reason that grinds my gears... the programming team filled up. We have three actual programmers, and the other five of them are freshmen that we call 'pseudocoders.' We call them pseudocoders because they don't code, they play video games while the three senior programmers do all the work (actually, I can't really say that, they did do one thing that the senior programmers couldn't implement). Me, I can program extremely well and I didn't get on the team because it is filled with pseudocoders.


To be honest, our team doesn't get much done because we have way too many people. At our last meeting I created something before everyone got there to keep the soccer ball from hitting our electronics and knocking things loose or off. Once everyone was there there were too many people to do anything. There was a small game of keepaway with the soccer ball, and the rest of the two hours was spent watching paint dry (for me). We had half of the team walking around trying to find something to do last night. I hope we have more to do today...

OmegaGDS wrote:

davidthefat wrote:

hayk0510 wrote:

davidthefat wrote:ONLY 10 programmers worked on Gears of War??!! They must be super good

Are you familiar with Brooke's Law?

“Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later”

This is because the number of programmers increases linearly but the connection between these programmers and the complexity of cooperation increase exponentially. It is not uncommon for software to be built by small groups of awesome programmers.

I experienced it first hand... My robotics team has 3 programmers, including me and all they do is slow me down, even the lead programmer, I doubt he know what he is doing, but hes alright, but the 3rd guy on the other hand is a pain in the ass... He wont shut up, ans when it was clearly me doing all the work and hes just staring at me typing code, hes like "Yea WE did it, team work, yea, we all 3 did it" Im like what ever, since the teacher clearly knows Im doing all the work, seriously they cant even get solenoids working by them selves... I was like 3 hours late for the meeting and they have been trying the whole time to figure it out, It literally took me 1 minute to figure it out and type it in and it worked... I should have gotten the lead programmer position, but he got it because of his seniority. I really can't trust them to even write a piece of code, they don't know what a struct is (we were using C for practice robots) and they barely know how to use an API document... Just face palm

Yea I sound cocky, but its just the truth, the only one I trust with the code is the Lead programmer

I basically got stuck in electronics(wiring) and mechanics on my robotics team for a reason that grinds my gears... the programming team filled up. We have three actual programmers, and the other five of them are freshmen that we call 'pseudocoders.' We call them pseudocoders because they don't code, they play video games while the three senior programmers do all the work (actually, I can't really say that, they did do one thing that the senior programmers couldn't implement). Me, I can program extremely well and I didn't get on the team because it is filled with pseudocoders.


To be honest, our team doesn't get much done because we have way too many people. At our last meeting I created something before everyone got there to keep the soccer ball from hitting our electronics and knocking things loose or off. Once everyone was there there were too many people to do anything. There was a small game of keepaway with the soccer ball, and the rest of the two hours was spent watching paint dry (for me). We had half of the team walking around trying to find something to do last night. I hope we have more to do today...

I know what you mean, but this kid, has lots of potential, I think hes more book smart than me at some stuff, but just doent do anything and criticizes everything while he just sits and plays games... LOL My mentor is letting me do C++ next year since he didn't think I was up to the standards since it was my first year, I ended up coding most of the robot...

lol its funny that a dead topic goes on with so much off topic s***.

Not to hijack a thread, but:

davidthefat wrote: I experienced it first hand... My robotics team has 3 programmers, including me and all they do is slow me down, even the lead programmer, I doubt he know what he is doing, but hes alright, but the 3rd guy on the other hand is a pain in the ass... He wont shut up, ans when it was clearly me doing all the work and hes just staring at me typing code, hes like "Yea WE did it, team work, yea, we all 3 did it" Im like what ever, since the teacher clearly knows Im doing all the work, seriously they cant even get solenoids working by them selves... I was like 3 hours late for the meeting and they have been trying the whole time to figure it out, It literally took me 1 minute to figure it out and type it in and it worked... I should have gotten the lead programmer position, but he got it because of his seniority. I really can't trust them to even write a piece of code, they don't know what a struct is (we were using C for practice robots) and they barely know how to use an API document... Just face palm

Yea I sound cocky, but its just the truth, the only one I trust with the code is the Lead programmer

I feel your pain; I'm in pretty much the same situation at the start of every year--but the useless don't last long here .
Just be glad you're using a real language. I'm stuck as the only Labview "programmer" on my team(unless you count the various spellcheckers that hovered over my shoulder over the years "It doesn't matter if I spell 'control' wrong so long as I spell it wrong consistently").
[rant] I get stuck with Labview every year because it has the most immediate and obvious results, as well as being idiot-friendly. Apparently everyone's supposed to be able to "program" the robot... but if it ever gets to the point when anyone else has to program the robot, we're obviously already completely screwed. And ...[/rant] (it just keeps going from there)

Back on topic: (at least, I think this was the topic)
I cannot, in good conscience, recommend c++ as a first language for use in game design/development. As someone said a few pages back, lack of motivation is a killer. It's either that or my laziness that has me halfway through my junior year in high school with nothing to show off. However, I'm finally committing. As for a language to start with, I've heard great things about Python (and as an added bonus, you'll be able to do scripting in Blender 3d) and Pygame.