Elysian Shadows

zeid wrote:Why I highlighted you saying, "I can still respect someone and say something that they will find offensive" I didn't find many of these images to be anything but offensive and disrespectful. Do a quick Google search and you will see nothing but racist dribble. In what way does this benefit anyone?

Yeah I'm not talking about anything specific there and you're taking it out of context imo, the benefit however would be clash sparking up progress in either positive or negative actions. And yes, I know what I'll find if I wanted to see those images.

Other than that I think we're on the same page.

Randi wrote:http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0521/pakist ... urn-flags/ The artist who started this

"The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place,"

I agree with her 100%

"An Al-Qaeda front organisation has offered 100,000 dollars to anyone who kills Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who has angered many Muslims by drawing highly blasphemous caricature of the prophet."

they were also burning American flags, can't blame them most of the world hates Americans, and this event isn't going to help their case either.

You know this is so fucking hypocritical, its bad to piss off the rag heads with these images, but its okay to hate americas, even americans that have done nothing wrong, and that you cant blame the people that hate em, wtf is wrong with you, fuck you i say. america did not go and fly planes into civilian buildings. yet they are the poor sods that are "hated".

Now while i dont think all muslims are terrorists, i seldom if ever see them denounce it, i do see normal citizens cheer and rejoice as news of 9/11 gets to them. SOOO.. fuck em. if they wanna kill people over cartoons, that just shows their lack of humanity, and their pathetic little lives.

I think they just use this as a excuse to continue their terrorism.

just think if everyone wanted to kill people who draw images they didnt like.

Randi wrote:http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0521/pakist ... urn-flags/ The artist who started this

"The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place,"

I agree with her 100%

"An Al-Qaeda front organisation has offered 100,000 dollars to anyone who kills Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who has angered many Muslims by drawing highly blasphemous caricature of the prophet."

they were also burning American flags, can't blame them most of the world hates Americans, and this event isn't going to help their case either.

That's kinda funny, Lars Vilks just did a minor silly sketch of Muhammed, I saw it and it wasn't that terrible.

Randi wrote:http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0521/pakist ... urn-flags/ The artist who started this

"The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place,"

I agree with her 100%

"An Al-Qaeda front organisation has offered 100,000 dollars to anyone who kills Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who has angered many Muslims by drawing highly blasphemous caricature of the prophet."

they were also burning American flags, can't blame them most of the world hates Americans, and this event isn't going to help their case either.

Are you fucking shitting me? How in god's name does this make any fucking sense?

We merely draw pictures of their profits (which EVERYBODY here has every right to do), and the Islam extremists respond with burning our flags and fucking DEATH THREATS? How the FUCK are we at the wrong? We are not at the mercy of a bunch of fucked up individuals who think that drawing an offensive picture warrants fucking murder.

Censorship, banning this kind of activity, and revoking our RIGHT to piss off Muslim extremists is only going to empower the kind of people who behave like this.

Story wrote:"The vitriol this 'day' has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place,"

No, this entire thing started because South Park's creators received DEATH THREATS for doing it in the first place. How the FUCK is that not "endangering" our rights of expression? I think you have that completely backwards.

The truth is that these are the kinds of actions that make people in the US and people around the world think that Muslims are the extremophile terrorists. DRAWING A PICTURE leads to DEATH THREATS. No civilized, peaceful religion on this planet should condone any such activity. The world does not bow its freedom of expression to a few fucked radicals whose sky god's tender feelings are hurt by some stupid drawings.

I understand that you naysayers are trying to avoid conflict and "live at peace" with the Muslim community. If "living in peace" requires giving up my freedom of expression for fear of persecution, death threats, or any such response from the Muslim community then peace is NOT worth it.

my point is they have as much right to say those things as you do to draw the pictures

Randi wrote:my point is they have as much right to say those things as you do to draw the pictures

they can vocalize their distaste and anger. but inciting violence and murder.. are you fucking insane. your or anyones "rights" ends where it imposes on other peoples...

avansc wrote:

Randi wrote:my point is they have as much right to say those things as you do to draw the pictures

they can vocalize their distaste and anger. but inciting violence and murder.. are you fucking insane. your or anyones "rights" ends where it imposes on other peoples...

Yeah. I am going to have to agree. They have every right to get pissed. They have every right to burn our flags. They have every right to hate us. They DON'T have a right to threaten our lives. I don't think that any US courtroom (or any civilized one for that matter) would accept "Oh, I was just exercising my freedom of expression by submitting death threats."

An Al-Qaeda front organisation has offered 100,000 dollars to anyone who kills Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who has angered many Muslims by drawing highly blasphemous caricature of the prophet.

Pakistan condemned the caricatures on Facebook and said that "such malicious and insulting attacks hurt the feelings of Muslims around the world".



...Wow.

GyroVorbis wrote:"Oh, I was just exercising my freedom of expression by submitting death threats."

Man, I have the greatest mental video with that quote hahahaha

Yeah I'm not talking about anything specific there and you're taking it out of context imo, the benefit however would be clash sparking up progress in either positive or negative actions. And yes, I know what I'll find if I wanted to see those images.

Other than that I think we're on the same page.

Sorry if I took something out of context, that would have just been how I read it. I think it happens a lot on the interwebz.

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Let me just re-itterate something said earlier, some of my friends recieved hate mail. This included death threats. There are shit people wherever you go and these kinds of things encourage those dick heads into action.

Grouping Muslims with Al-Qaeda is the equivelent of grouping Christians with the Neo Nazi extremists. It's just not the same thing. The fact it gets to the stage where people are attacking the entire religion to piss off a bunch of terrorist only serves to show how people view the Muslim community. Would you draw pornographic pictures of Jesus to shit off the KKK? The logic there is flawed. Then when the KKK make a bunch more threats for you making fun of their masiah, should you say anyone who's a practicing christian should be condemned?

I understand that you naysayers are trying to avoid conflict and "live at peace" with the Muslim community. If "living in peace" requires giving up my freedom of expression for fear of persecution, death threats, or any such response from the Muslim community then peace is NOT worth it.

This statement above is exactly what I'm talking about, my friends wouldn't have to feel like shit just because people group others based on religions that are EXTREMIST variations of theres. Or associating religion with ethnicity. This event revealed how shamefully racist the western world can be and took advantage of your freedom of speech. You live at peace with the Muslim community every day. They are in your country right now, and no I don't mean sneaking around waiting to blow you up.

Again you have every right to say what you want. But like I said before even if the original intent was to promote freedom of speech "draw Muhammad day" did the opposite, and was conducted in a way that did nothing but fuel hatred. When I say 'fuel hatred' I mean from and towards both sides, your comment just condemned Muslims as a whole that includes every man women and child. The Pakistan Government condemned America as a whole. How did anyone win, or is anything positive being achieved? People are getting death threats and hate mail on both sides. Pakistans right to have free speech gets set back a few decades and people are smug enough to say "What a victory for freedom of speech" or, "well serves them right for attacking our basic freedoms". Maybe you think your right of free speech was being threatened, but really in the long run, how? I have no doubt the church of scientology and numerous other groups have sent death threats to the makers of Southpark (I'm sure many were ready to follow through). Did it in some way stop everyone in your country from being able to say what they wanted. Why is it different this time? The short answer is it's not, people just feel differently about who said it this time. The network censors your shows not the people writting death threats.

And no, I'm not a Naysayer trying to "live at peace" out of naivity, thinking everyone just needs a hug from each other and then all the fighting will go away. Or that we should live under a fascist regime where people have a nice neat list of topics they can discuss. What I'm saying is it is important to not over-generalise or take too broad an outlook, when it comes to what a person is like it is almost always best to look at the individual and not the group.

On a final note:
Terms like "Towel-Head" are extrememly derogatory to Islamic people and people of Arabic decent as a whole. Please refrain from using it in intelligent conversation/debate as it serves only to lessen your standpoint and make you appear more bias.

zeid wrote:Let me just re-itterate something said earlier, some of my friends recieved hate mail. This included death threats. There are shit people wherever you go and these kinds of things encourage those dick heads into action.

Grouping Muslims with Al-Qaeda is the equivelent of grouping Christians with the Neo Nazi extremists. It's just not the same thing. The fact it gets to the stage where people are attacking the entire religion to piss off a bunch of terrorist only serves to show how people view the Muslim community. Would you draw pornographic pictures of Jesus to shit off the KKK? The logic there is flawed. Then when the KKK make a bunch more threats for you making fun of their masiah, should you say anyone who's a practicing christian should be condemned?

I understand that you naysayers are trying to avoid conflict and "live at peace" with the Muslim community. If "living in peace" requires giving up my freedom of expression for fear of persecution, death threats, or any such response from the Muslim community then peace is NOT worth it.

This statement above is exactly what I'm talking about, my friends wouldn't have to feel like shit just because people group others based on religions that are EXTREMIST variations of theres. Or associating religion with ethnicity. This event revealed how shamefully racist the western world can be and took advantage of your freedom of speech. You live at peace with the Muslim community every day. They are in your country right now, and no I don't mean sneaking around waiting to blow you up.

Again you have every right to say what you want. But like I said before even if the original intent was to promote freedom of speech "draw Muhammad day" did the opposite, and was conducted in a way that did nothing but fuel hatred. When I say 'fuel hatred' I mean from and towards both sides, your comment just condemned Muslims as a whole that includes every man women and child. The Pakistan Government condemned America as a whole. How did anyone win, or is anything positive being achieved? People are getting death threats and hate mail on both sides. Pakistans right to have free speech gets set back a few decades and people are smug enough to say "What a victory for freedom of speech" or, "well serves them right for attacking our basic freedoms". Maybe you think your right of free speech was being threatened, but really in the long run, how? I have no doubt the church of scientology and numerous other groups have sent death threats to the makers of Southpark (I'm sure many were ready to follow through). Did it in some way stop everyone in your country from being able to say what they wanted, why is it different this time? The short answer is it's not, people just feel differently about who said it this time.

And no, I'm not a Naysayer trying to "live at peace" out of naivity, thinking everyone just needs a hug from each other and then all the fighting will go away. Or that we should live under a fascist regime where people have a nice neat list of topics they can discuss. What I'm saying is it is important to not over-generalise or take too broad an outlook, when it comes to what a person is like it is almost always best to look at the individual and not the group.

On a final note:
Terms like "Towel-Head" are extrememly derogatory to Islamic people and people of Arabic decent as a whole. Please refrain from using it in intelligent conversation/debate as it serves only to lessen your standpoint and make you appear more bias.

Christianity does not promote violence, islam does. people going on a jihad are just following the religeon. the kkk and nazis have NOTHING to do with christianity.

"You live at peace with the Muslim community every day. They are in your country right now, and no I don't mean sneaking around waiting to blow you up."

actually you need to follow the news a bit. im not saying all of them or even the majority is. but they do exist.

and as far as raghead towlhead offending them, for fuck sakes, grow a pair of balls... its a joke... it does look like a towl/rag wrapped around their heads. what? we are not allowed to make jokes anymore.. i mean seriously.

and lastly, i think there is a huge difference between speech and threats. you can say you dont agree with someone, but threatning to kill them is not speech. its a threat.

Christianity does not promote violence, islam does. people going on a jihad are just following the religeon. the kkk and nazis have NOTHING to do with christianity.

It is the interpretations people bring to their religions that promote violence, whether or not the religion is violent at it's core. The KKK; "They consider themselves a Christian organization and base their doctrines upon their own reading of the Bible." This is in exactly the same as Al-Qaeda consider themself to be a Muslim organisation. Also:

That isn't meant as an attack on christians nor am I going to say it's neccassarily 100% accurate or true. I'm using it to say; any religion/religious fact can be skewed to the argument and motivations of others. I can easily now say Christianity is a violent religion just as you said about the islamic faith. Cat Stevens, Muhamad Ali (maybe not the best example of non-violence), and many other people are Muslims.

You live at peace with the Muslim community every day. They are in your country right now, and no I don't mean sneaking around waiting to blow you up.

actually you need to follow the news a bit. im not saying all of them or even the majority is. but they do exist.

I didn't say there weren't Muslims that are there "sneaking around waiting to blow you up". I was saying that I am not refering to them. The extremists are the problem not the group as a whole. You have missinterpreted my comment there. There have been terrorist attacks on Australians as well so I'm certainly not saying there isn't a threat.

and as far as raghead towlhead offending them, for fuck sakes, grow a pair of balls... its a joke... it does look like a towl/rag wrapped around their heads. what? we are not allowed to make jokes anymore.. i mean seriously.

Racial slurs If you would be comfortable saying each and every one of these to a person of the respective herritage, whom you have not met, and don't feel any sense of shame then I call you a racist, if not then why can you do it to this group. When you post something on the internet everyone can see it, words posses a large amount of power to shape the views and ideals of others. Notice how this thread progresses back and forth with images being removed added, etc. Thats because people on this board respect you and listen to what each other says, whether or not they realise it; it is affecting how they think and percieve the world. My overall statement has been you have every right to free speech, use that right to better the world not to set it back I see the use of these slurs in such a nonchalante fashion as doing the latter. What I said was in a polite way out of respect. Let me say it again in a way more adherent to my views. I abhore descrimination and racism It is something I am exposed to more regularly then I would like and I always feel uncomfortable when people use the kinds of terms you are using. I actually think less of people who consider it a joke, as it may be to you, but it says a lot about your character and how you feel/look at people.

You can tell me to grow a pair of balls and insult me all you like. I feel much more comfortable having that said to me then having these kinds of slurs mentioned in my presents. So I ask as a sign of courtesy you do refrain. That is a request not a demand.

and lastly, i think there is a huge difference between speech and threats. you can say you dont agree with someone, but threatning to kill them is not speech. its a threat.

Yes there is, and I didn't say otherwise. In fact I said both innocent American and innocent Arabic Peoples and Muslims are recieving such death threats. There are "bad guys" on both sides.

I'll say it again, christianity does not promote violence. go read the bible.
islam does. go read the kuran, especially to non believers or infidels.

im not saying that all muslims are violent, i dont believe that.

just because someone smacks a lable on them selves does not mean they represent that cause, and that goes both ways, but "radical" muslims are only doing what their text are telling them.

In all honesty i would not call muslim a rag head when im adressing him. just like you would call a person, fatty if you wanted to adress them, but that does not mean you wont say i saw this fat person on the train today.
when i say raghead, it has nothing to do with the person or their beliefs or what they do. just that it fucking looks like they have a rag wrapped around their head. and i have not adressed anyone here with a racial "slur".

as for your little list. really, did you even look at it.
Ape
(U.S.) a black person.[10]

poor black people in non US countries...

how about you just call someone an ape when they do something stupid(thats what my dad called me when i did something stupid)... oh but if that person so happens to be a black person then all of a sudden its racist..

Limey
(US) A British person. Comes from the historical British naval practice of giving sailors limes to stave off scurvy.

okay and... this had to take the cake..
Boer
(South Africa) farmer sometimes used as a derogatory term describing all white people [21]

are you kidding me.. thats not a slur... this is just pathetic. (im a white south african)

Anyways, not worth worrying over this to much. all i can say is. sticks and stones.. people really need to learn not to turn everything into fighting words. where does it end. soon enough we are gonna start killing people because we think lady gaga has a lollypop and not a muffin.