But that's not all of what you said. You told them how they're doing things wrong. You're telling them how to artificially construct their plan for success from neither a practiced and proven viewpoint or with an open mind to their intentions. You seem to take this assumption that they want to build the biggest, best game while optimizing community hype at the pinnacle right before the game is launched. Listen to what they have to say! They're giving you their answers to that. They aren't congruent with groups like JForce because that's NOT their style. They don't approach this like a fresh marketing grad looking to make quick a buck by focusing on optimizing short-term community/market strategy to the detriment of long-term respect and actual organic community-building (or, you know, just doing it because it's fun and a motivating thing to work towards while simultaneously being a great open-ended playground* for them to play around in for whatever future en devours they may have).pubby8 wrote:GyroVorbis wrote:Am I the only one who finds endless irony here? He sets out to prove a point being that we are super arrogant and are undeserving of your respect/support. In doing so, he has started a 3 page thread of people basically rallying for ES and defending us while simultaneously hurting his own image.
We are often credited with way too much for our Youtube series. We never set out to be famous. We never thought we would become successful. We never thought anybody would know what ES was or even join our forums from those videos. Now that we DO have an established viewerbase/fanbase, of course we take advantage of that, but we didn't have the initial foresight to realize how big the "Adventures in Game Development" would become--and I would never be arrogant enough to say otherwise.
But guess what? I DO have the foresight to see how posts from trolls like you bashing our project actually does us good. For everybody else who understands our passions, our goals, and what we are setting out to do, watching trolls like you rip into a project that we quite honestly dedicate a gigantic amount of time to and are sincerely passionate about probably makes us look even better. Look at TheNiceLordJ, JForce games, Bearrick, and all of those other attention whores. Those are some of the biggest threads on these boards with some of our most passionate defenders. You are failing at your own game, son.He sets out to prove a point being that we are super arrogant and are undeserving of your respect/support.You have basically said that I have achieved my "goal"In doing so, he has started a 3 page thread of people basically rallying for ES and defending us while simultaneously hurting his own image
I said your community was full of dipshit fanboys - I get 10 mispelled comments telling me to "fack off dood u sux"
I said you were arrogant assholes - I get told that I am too low to say such things and that I need to be put in place.
I said that you are blind to criticism - and you brush this off and deny it.
My goal was to show you your flaws, and this topic shows them more than any of the clown videos I've seen of you.
And you know what? Being a developer on the XNA App Hub for XNA Indie Games, I've seen a lot of developers respond in a very hostile manner to JForce. Their posts are often inflammatory, and when they tried to release Zombie Avatar Massage 2 it got completely shot down by other community members. Other developers didn't appreciate what they perceived as a lack of integrity and regard for the image of the service.
As for you, might I suggest that you ask questions you're genuinely willing to discuss (without pointing fingers when the answer isn't the one you want), engage in open dialogue, and relate your own personal experiences. In essence, you've got to be vulnerable and open if you expect others to do the same (though this also means that a couple of specific posters, not pointing any fingers, need to stop responding with such knee-jerk name-calling reactions). Respect and openness to feedback need to be mutual - not a one way street.
We're all learning. That goes for me. That goes for you. And we all need to give respect before we can expect it in return. I have had disagreements in the past on these boards, but they were few and far between. More so, I give credit to the members of these boards for giving some sense of congruence to what can be an incredibly challenging route as a game programmer. There are so many pathways to go down and things to focus on. Without communities like this one, it can all be too much. Above all, I strive to continue growing and finding where I most want to direct my talents and energies. It's not like all the answers are here... no, in many cases only I can find those answers, but places like this help to create environments where those ideas can be explored and some questions can be answered.
*Just to emphasize this point - innovation isn't born out of hard-nosed structure. It's born out of trial and error, sandboxes, getting your hands dirty, cleaning up messes and trying again, throwing away the book then picking it back up again, etc. There's a reason that a vast majority of nobel laureates engage in one form or another of creative pursuit. The key point is that there is certainly not one right answer. I really value the time I've spent playing with things like Lego as a kid where I constructed worlds out of whatever was flowing through my mind - and these worlds persisted both inside my head and in the blocks. I doubt I was ever the most efficient Lego builder, but it was never about efficiency for me back then and I'm glad of that.
