Elysian Shadows

Diefy72:
Yeah, that's probly true. I got a book about C++ but it's like 4 years old and I don't have anyone to teach me how to do anything or show me what to do. I heard C++ is one of the hardest to start out in too.

spum789:
well then heres an idea go teach yourself. i was self taught and im pretty sure falco was self taught. and most great coders,hackers,game developers were self taught. but programming isn't something just anyone can do. u have to be naturally smart. u have to be able to link thinks together and you must have an excellent memory to remember the syntax of a language. and don't just give up after looking at a few tutorials. heres a good idea go buy a really expensive book on C++ a good one is by Bjarne Stroustrup he is the creater of C++ read every single page.... and learn what a command does, why it works, how it controls the computer, what can you use it for, and why is this command useful. Thats my suggestion and even tho its expensive its worth every penny

@kiethgarry. your right. you can't just jump in. a good thing do always do is learn the ever famous "Hello World" program. im sure everyone here knows what im talking about. and i can understand why it can be hard to learn from a website that might not contain everything a book can which is why i suggested to pick up the Bjarne Stroustrup book. im making a video tutorials soon but they'll be on BlitzPlus because its an easy beginners language. so if your that eager and can't afford the book then watch my vids.

that last part about my last post was toward every beginner programmer. not just keithgarry who does deserve his props!

kostiak:
Why are you guys saying starting with C++ is a good idea? It's not.. When I've started learning C++ I already new bits of Basic and Visual Basic and it was still hard starting C++. Plus, @spum789, memory? really? I have terrible memory.. I still can remember the 30+ keywords and what i don't i can just easily look up.

Best bet for a beginner nowadays is to start with Python - its light on syntax but heavy on programing principles. And as we say, once you learned the principles of programing, learning another language is not hard.

spum789:
yea really memory do you know how vast the C++ command language is. and if you have to keep looking up commands you can have absolutely no chance of being a good programmer who can just think about what he wants a program to do and then do it. and C++ is a good language to start with you wanna know why its cuz i started with it and i am a very good coder. C++ taught me how to code. there is a difference between knowing a language and knowing how to code it to do what you want. and sorry for apparently calling you out in your terrible coding skills..

thanatos454:
@spum789
I watch your videos occasionally and I am even subscribed to you. With that said I want to tell you to stop giving out advice as if you aren't a complete noob(and it is obvious to me and many others that you are). We have too many people on youtube who do that already. If you don't think you are a noob, I suggest you google, "Unskilled and Unaware," read it and think about it objectively.

By stating that you MUST memorize these vast volumes of "syntax" it is apparent that you are missing some very fundamental programming skills. You are not seeing the larger picture that makes memorization more or less unnecessary. Your use of, "syntax," when, judging by your later comments you meant the semantics of the STL, is another telltale sign of a noob.

You did get one thing right though. There IS a difference between knowing a language and just coding in it. Kostiak and I know it while you are merely coding in it.

Somebody has to deflate that fat head or yours if you are ever going to improve. The keys to becoming a good programmer is to be motivated, objective, and logical. Large ego's get in the way of all three of those. Sorry for apparently calling you out as the complete and utter beginner that you are.

GyroVorbis:
"C++ command language" - LULZ.

GUESS WHO IS ON SPRING BREAK, EVERYONE!?!?!?!

spum789:
falco why did you delete my comment that prick deserves every bit of that message i wrote.

nobody has the right to even think about downing me when they know nothing about me. I am one of the smartest people of my age, and you can't judge somebody off of one of there first ever projects with a new language. That is just morally wrong.

@thanatos since you believe you know everything about programming where the hell are your videos at? Oh my bad you don't have any because you suck at programming and you know nothing about it. The only thing your good for is sucking BJ's dick

thanatos454:
@GyroVorbis
lol Yeah I can't believe I glanced over that one. Oh and please don't erase his comments I'd like every one of his failures to be up for people to read.

@spum789
That arrogance is seriously hindering you.
As it is now you will keep demonstrating your stupidity to everybody. The people who are more experienced will lose their respect for you(see Falco's comment) and the people who are noobier than you(not necessarily noobier, just less confident) will be horribly mislead.

When they figure out that you don't know what you are talking about they will lose respect for you as well. And they WILL figure it out because they are bound to pass you up. As it is now your "nobody has the right to even think about downing me" outlook just cuts you off from a lot progress you would have otherwise.  And the fact that you say it is "morally wrong" is laughable. It is also funny how you think having a programming video up on youtube proves your worth as a programmer.

"and you can't judge somebody off of one of there first ever projects with a new language."

When did I mention any of your projects at all? I gave you several reasons as to why you are a noob. I never mentioned your projects but I could if you want. And as far as not being able to judge somebody on their first projects that is wrong as well. You can. You judge them as beginners, as noobs and tell them how they can improve. There is nothing wrong with being a noob. Everyone is a noob at some point. The problem is when they are a noob and refuse to(or can't) accept it. They start trying to give out advice and the other little nooblets don't know any better. The poser noob doesn't advance as fast as he could and the follower noobs suffer from inaccurate or just plain wrong teachings. It is all kind of sad really...

kostiak:
@spum - "I am one of the smartest people of my age" - no, you fail.. gyro, can you please ban this nth iteration of BJ?

spum789:
And if you think I'm giving out such bad advice, then why don't you prove it. Show me something that I've posted that even relates to bad advice. I guarantee that there isn't any.

How dare you insult me?! You have no proof of me being a "noob". I am one of the smartest people of my age. @kotiak. yes i fail, i fail at being a complete idiot like yourself. @thanatos, you've never given any legitimate reason as to how I can even relate to being a noob. No I am not a noob. And yes you did mention my videos thats all you've based your comments on. And I have a very good outlook on programming. I know how to code, and you can't seem to respect that. I could slap my dick on the keyboard and code a better program than you ever could.

@kotaik, you and thanatos should be banned for having the nerve to insult me the way you've done. This is a channel about programming and all you've done is bitch at my comments.

thanatos454:
Hey Falco and team I was wondering if you'd mind if I took my conversation with spum and put it on the forum. I know you don't mind if there is drama on here but idk about your forums. I'd keep doing it here but my next reply would be probably around 10 parts.

keithgarry:
Dude, time could be better spent.

thanatos454:
Meh, I understand that. And I agree with you. Sometimes I just obsess over things. This seems to be one of them. I don't know why. I mean the guy has yet to put up anything half intelligent. I've already decided this will be my last reply to him. *shrug* Oh well, my time to waste.

spum789:
Listen thanatos if your willing to drop this i am too under the conditions you admit that I'm not a noob at programming, you admit that I am intelligent, and you admit that you were wrong to insult me in the ways that you did. If you admit these conditions that I just stated then I'll drop it as well. God bless and I hope you make the right decision. ^_^


thanatos454:
@spum789
I originally brought up your videos as a way to say that I like your videos and that I am not just a random flamer. I can see how you read it as an insult. That was not my intention. I guess I did that rather poorly.

You asked for examples of how you are giving out bad advice.. Fine I'll pick apart the first comment of yours that I replied to. Here we go...

Teaching yourself is a fine suggestion. But I have no idea where you got this 'fact' that, "most great coders,hackers,game developers were self taught." Even if you could link me to a reliable source to support that statement it would still be horrible. Not everybody is initially cut out for teaching themselves. If a person like that read what you said they would get discouraged and feel like quitting. They may even do so. And there goes a potentially excellent programmer. Really it isn't the ability to teach yourself that makes and excellent programmer it is the ability to go the extra mile to make sure you understand all the material. Going that extra mile could entail teaching yourself or ironing out the finer points with your teacher.

Next up:
"programming isn't something just anyone can do. u have to be naturally smart." Though I do believe that nature plays some role in the abilities of a person, I don't think that role is as large as most people seem to think. I believe that nurture plays the biggest part. The thought that you have to be, "naturally smart," discourages people who have the abilities but are too insecure to see/discover it(I guess you could say they are the opposite of you). They have been duped by that elitist attitude, the same one you share with thenicelord(b)j, into never trying to realize their true potential.

I've already told you how your "excellent memory to remember the syntax of a language." statement shows your lack of true understanding and is just plain wrong. Memorization is not understanding. Sure it is a necessary step for learning certain things but ultimately it isn't knowledge until you've boiled what you've had to memorize down to the absolute essentials and tied the rest together with logic. That isn't to say that there is anything wrong with memorizing certain things to save time. For example I could derive the quadratic formula every time I needed to use it but I'd rather just memorize it. Now with programming you could try and memorize everything but then you'll be missing out on a very important skill needed as a programmer; the ability to research and track down effective solutions to the tasks you are given. And not only that but as you get more experience programming you'll naturally memorize things. So you are wasting time that you could be using to sharpen your other skills. So yet again we have bad advice from you that could have discouraged another person. You could even set someone down a path where they'll burn excessive amounts of time on memorizing things because you said it was needed.

"heres a good idea go buy a really expensive book on C++ a good one is by Bjarne Stroustrup he is the creater of C++ read every single page..."

Hmm, where to begin... Now you are wasting your reader's money. I am not saying Bjarne's book isn't good. The book is excellent, but only for intermediate to advanced C++ programmers. The book is definitely not meant for beginners. If you don't take my word for it I can point you to many more with the same opinion. It is actually probably why you think you need to memorize everything.

And with all of that, I am done.

..............

Did you just have a fight on the forums, and then repost it in its entirety here?

Did that just happen?

EDIT: Or was this on IRC?

Yes. Well that last entry is new. And I asked Falco if he cared. Of course he didn't.

All I have to say is that if you waste this much time and thought into someone saying that they're better than you, you will certainly die before you make it halfway through everyone on the internet.

Every idea that you repsond to about mine are completely false. You think you know everything but you don't. I'm sorry your just some other dumbass, that wants to dis great programmers like me. And about the whole self teaching thing. Bill Gates was self taught, right there raped you got pwnd and there is nothing you can do about it. No more of your un-witted comments can respond to me anymore. I don't know why you think your right, because your not. I don't know why you felt to lash out at only me when there are true shitheads spreading false information and advice. And have you ever read Bjarne's Book, apparently not because when books like that are written, the writer automatically assumes that the reader has absolutely no knowledge on the subject of the book. Pwnd again. Also memorization is key for learning how to program, you just can't sit there every second looking up a command or some part of a syntax, its to time consuming. Pwnd again. Lastly I see that you've brought up the subject "Nurture over Nature", here your wrong again. Take for instance twin brothers are born, one brother losses his penis during circumcision , doctor hypothesizes that if the baby that lost his penis was brought up as a girl then it can be turned into one, the whole Nurture over Nature thing. Well this experiment epically failed. The normal brother committed suicide when he found out, and the abnormal brother can't live a normal life, ex. can't have off-spring, can't have sexual pleasure, permanently traumatized. Therefore if you don't have the ability to memorize most of the commands, then you can't possibly become a decent programmer, you can't just sit there for hours and hours and hours trying to figure out how to pause your program, or what is the best approach to making your code branch off into different directions based on the users input because you don't know the command for it, or you can't just keep looking up simple command after simple command, it just doesn't work like that. Also if you don't possess the naturally ability to logically link things together then you can't be like "Oh I want to make my program do this if the users inputs 5, but how can I do that?". And for the last time you got Pwnd, there's nothing you can do about it. Now go run along and leave smart people like me to do the real advice giving.

aamesxdavid wrote:All I have to say is that if you waste this much time and thought into someone saying that they're better than you, you will certainly die before you make it halfway through everyone on the internet.

You are sort of saying what keithgarry said. So look at what I said to him. It really wasn't because he thought he was better than me.. He had never said anything to me when I started saying all this to him. It was him putting down kostiak that made me choose to do all that. Everybody wastes time occasionally. Just they do it with a game or a book. I chose to comment this guy.

spum wrote:Every idea that you repsond to about mine are completely false.

-respond
-every.. IS

spum wrote:I'm sorry your just some other dumbass,

-you're

spum wrote:right there raped you got pwnd and there is nothing you can do about it.

Wait, is it "right there raped you" and "got pwnd", or "right there raped", "you got pwnd". Or wait, it doesn't matter because neither makes the least bit of sense.

spum wrote:No more of your un-witted comments can respond to me anymore.

Comments don't respond. People respond with comments. Listen to the NRA, son, they know what they're talking about.

spum wrote:I don't know why you think your right, because your not.

-you're
-oh, and.. YOU'RE

spum wrote:And have you ever read Bjarne's Book

Have you ever read any book? For someone with so much C++ knowledge, you waste a lot of time with Blitz.

spum wrote:the writer automatically assumes that the reader has absolutely no knowledge on the subject of the book. Pwnd again.

Aside from this not being true whatsoever, stop counting "pwn"s. Seriously.

spum wrote:and what is it to you if I suck a cock now and again?

Okay, I added that one. I don't see how some kid killing himself over not having a penis means you can't learn to be a good programmer. Perfect example; you seem to not have a penis, and you claim to be a great programmer. See, that's not even an analogy, direct correlation right there.

@Thanatos:

Okay, I get your point - it's kind of fun. What I was getting at is that it accomplishes nothing. It's self-indulgent ranting that doesn't change anyone's mind about anything. Anyone who gave a second to listen to anything spum says will notice for themselves that he's full of shit. So your post doesn't exactly serve as a warning; it's like telling me the next kid I see who has Down Syndrome isn't going to teach me calculus - no shit. Spum certainly isn't feeling the burn, all you've done is cause him to rant back incoherently some more. You're beating on an ADHD kid with no central nervous system - he's too stupid to even know what's going on, it's not a challenge or anything anyone else couldn't do. You're doing it just for the sake of swinging your arms around. Okay, I'm done with that metaphor, I'm on so little sleep I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. Just don't pretend it's something it's not, that's all.

@spum789
Lets say that you were "one of the smartest people" of your age. First off, where are you even getting that? You're saying it like it's a black and white fact. I've only been programming for about seven months and I know that YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN "EXCELLENT MEMORY" to be able to program. I have a pretty shitty memory for most things and I have no problem with programming what I want without looking anything up. How would you explain that? By no means am I saying I'm better than you in programming at all, I'm most likely not. But you just come off so arrogant that it seems like you would know nothing. If you can't figure out why people are attacking you on the forums and gyro's youtube then you should really read over some of the shit you've said again, lol...You honestly need to learn to be more modest because regardless of how good of a programmer you are most people wont want to work with you off of your attitude alone. You should go download Skype so some of us can talk to you about this, I know there's a few that would want to... My username is zniemann , message me when you get it so we can all talk about how you're "one of the smartest people" of your age. LOL

I find it a bit humorous.

I am a professional web master, and mainly specialize in PHP. Yes, I know it's no where near as complex as an application language, but the methods for programming are the same. It's about being able to analyze how to solve a problem/how to do it. If you can wrap your head around HOW to accomplish a task, and know that a method exists, and is possible, that's all you need. Just because you don't remember all the syntax, does not mean you can't program. I do a lot of copy/paste programming. Why? Because I know WHATS NEEDED, to accomplish a task.(Sure it's not an ideal method, but can get you by) There is no reason to memorize it. That's like saying you don't know the English language because you didn't memorize the dictionary.

Also, how old is your age anyway? You keep bringing it up. Almost like you expect us to be "proud" of you because you are so smart! Do your parents not appreciate your intelligence enough? So instead you DEMAND that we do?

spum wrote:Every idea that you repsond to about mine are completely false. You think you know everything but you don't. I'm sorry your just some other dumbass, that wants to dis great programmers like me. And about the whole self teaching thing. Bill Gates was self taught, right there raped you got pwnd and there is nothing you can do about it. No more of your un-witted comments can respond to me anymore. I don't know why you think your right, because your not. I don't know why you felt to lash out at only me when there are true shitheads spreading false information and advice. And have you ever read Bjarne's Book, apparently not because when books like that are written, the writer automatically assumes that the reader has absolutely no knowledge on the subject of the book. Pwnd again. Also memorization is key for learning how to program, you just can't sit there every second looking up a command or some part of a syntax, its to time consuming. Pwnd again. Lastly I see that you've brought up the subject "Nurture over Nature", here your wrong again. Take for instance twin brothers are born, one brother losses his penis during circumcision , doctor hypothesizes that if the baby that lost his penis was brought up as a girl then it can be turned into one, the whole Nurture over Nature thing. Well this experiment epically failed. The normal brother committed suicide when he found out, and the abnormal brother can't live a normal life, ex. can't have off-spring, can't have sexual pleasure, permanently traumatized. Therefore if you don't have the ability to memorize most of the commands, then you can't possibly become a decent programmer, you can't just sit there for hours and hours and hours trying to figure out how to pause your program, or what is the best approach to making your code branch off into different directions based on the users input because you don't know the command for it, or you can't just keep looking up simple command after simple command, it just doesn't work like that. Also if you don't possess the naturally ability to logically link things together then you can't be like "Oh I want to make my program do this if the users inputs 5, but how can I do that?". And for the last time you got Pwnd, there's nothing you can do about it. Now go run along and leave smart people like me to do the real advice giving.

You know, I'm not even gonna bother reading this drivel. Apparently the kid who's smarter than anyone else his age doesn't know when the fuck to separate his paragraphs.

Good call out Thanatos, kid's retarded.

Thanatos, I think you did the right thing in confronting this guy but, would've thought you could've done it a bit more elegantly. Being openly hostile on the tubes is a sure fire way for the person to never take a damn lick of what you say into honest consideration.

He definitely has an over inflated ego and is clearly new to this whole scene; nothing you said is wrong but, some of the terminology could've been kinder. You have to stroke huge egos like that a little to deflate them. (Rather than call him noob, take the time to say "new to the scene" or something similar; noob is generally an insult, etc)

But, yeah, good job.

I just wanted to say that I have never deleted a comment from my channel in my life.

GyroVorbis wrote:I just wanted to say that I have never deleted a comment from my channel in my life.

No, but it's easier to say "man, i pwndddd that guy so hard, too bad no one will see it cause someone deleted my comment" than to actually come up with a response.

Holy Freakin Wall Of Text.. Please just move on.

And with all of that, I am done.

P.S. - Mar this sounds like a goodbye post.