Elysian Shadows

I would have to take AP Calc by Senior year right? Im currently a sophomore and Im taking AP Comp Sci, Im part of the class that "Advanced" thats past everyone, but Im the ONLY sophomore in that class, so I seem kinda stupid sometimes even though Im ahead. Like I get the concept in my head but sometimes its hard to put it in code. cause Java isnt same as C++, just different. And I go the Long way but there was a easier way. or use too much resources. Sometime I seem to lack the ideas of the older more "smarter" juniors and seniors. I want to major in Comp Sci so is that often? getting beat by the nerdier older guys in solving a specific problem?

davidthefat wrote:I would have to take AP Calc by Senior year right? Im currently a sophomore and Im taking AP Comp Sci, Im part of the class that "Advanced" thats past everyone, but Im the ONLY sophomore in that class, so I seem kinda stupid sometimes even though Im ahead. Like I get the concept in my head but sometimes its hard to put it in code. cause Java isnt same as C++, just different. And I go the Long way but there was a easier way. or use too much resources. Sometime I seem to lack the ideas of the older more "smarter" juniors and seniors. I want to major in Comp Sci so is that often? getting beat by the nerdier older guys in solving a specific problem?

"Getting beat by the nerdier older guys" sounds like they just have more experience. Where I am now in my career is lightyears ahead of where I was back when I was bouncing sprites around on my Commodore. One thing in this field is certain, book smarts does NOT equal operational smarts. I've seen Master's graduates do really stupid things - and I don't have a degree. At uni I studied mathematics, computer science, and political science. My credits are spread all over the place - one reason I have no degree.

I didn't take any calculus in high school. I stopped at Algebra II. I got to uni and too pre-calculus and got an A. I took Calculus 2 and got an A. Then I took linear algebra, calculus 2, and discrete mathematics in the same semester. Got my ass handed to me. Moral of the story: you have to know your limitations.

Computer Science is theory and algorithms and problem solving. The programming courses are just teaching tools to do the theory, algorithms, and problem solving. Computer science is absolutely worthless if you're planning on getting a job as a system administrator or network engineer. Sure, companies claim they want a CS grad. But unless you're going to be doing computational physics, or research, or other heady math shit a business degree or Information Systems degree will get you a damn good job making damn good money.

If you're planning to work for Blizzard or Turbine or other Big-name-game-factory, then CS is a great thing. So would a math degree.

To answer your question, you can wait for your calculus if you want to. Unless the CS department has calculus as a pre-req for admission to the program. You'll find that AP calculus is not the same as college calculus. Sure, derivatives and integrations are the same, but you'll find that high school won't have you proving them and THAT'S what separates the "nerds" from the other kids hunkered in a corner sucking their thumbs.

-capt jack

Trust me, you aren't expected to have taken Calculus in high school for like any degree.

I'm a computer engineering major, and Kendall is a computer science degree. There are 2 levels of math below Calculus at most universities: Precal and Algebra+Trig. Algebra+Trig is for dipshits, but Precal is the *expected* place for 90% of the student body.

Learn what you can, but trust me, even in college not everybody is smart. You will find that there are always going to be a lot of kids in your classes who aren't very intelligent. If you're doing "moderately well" in your AP Comp Sci class, you are ahead of the curve. First year computer engineering/computer science students aren't even expected to have written a line of code before.

Don't get too cocky, though. Engineering/CS school gets really difficult really fast. You can breeze through your freshman and sophomore years, but junior and on is where it really starts to kick your ass. That's where the posers drop out.

GyroVorbis wrote:Don't get too cocky, though. Engineering/CS school gets really difficult really fast. You can breeze through your freshman and sophomore years, but junior and on is where it really starts to kick your ass. That's where the posers drop out.

QFT. I can vouch for the same on a math degree. Proofs kick everyone's ass.

Well the Computer industry is evolving fast, I mean back when I was born, it was just starting up for personal computer age with windows. Now its hard to predict how much the industry will change by the time I get into college. 3 years is a lot for computers. I honestly think Java is a waste of my time cause I already know C++ and probably more than the class will teach me. but Im doing it for credit and to look good for college. The only reason that people are past me was because I dont know the Java syntax as much as C++. I could have easily done that in C++ but not as easy in Java. Well they are similar enough...



Well heres what I think about Programming. Its literally a new language, so like writing an essay, any one can do it, but the quality and the length varies by person to person to say the same thing. So the better you get writing, you can move on to publich it as a novel or something. so more math knowledge is like knowing more vocabulary in english, but using it is different. Like similes and metaphors and imagery and other literary devices make a novel good, so thats like problem solving part of programming. Programming is like an art, trying to make the code run like it needs to but as small and quick as possible

I'm in league with capt. jack...well I can't attest to how close in league I am...but I got my start in the industry back in 2000.

I can certainly attest to the fact that, at least 10 years ago, there was still this element of "unconventional-ness" to game programming in general. It was not "safe", it was not "structured" (by accepted means), it was not anything that your college computer science professors would tell you were pristine examples of well written code. Granted, game programming was functional brilliance.

Times have CERTAINLY changed, and game programming while still in it's genesis for the most part has changed with the times. I can be of almost 100% certainty that unless you are "one of the old timers" with some extensive experience, you won't find yourself a job in this field anymore without a degree, it's simply too competitive. There's likely someone as good that HAS the degree (probable, not likely). That said, what will REALLY give you an edge is a breadth of examples of APPLIED knowledge. This means build yourself a portfolio....a good one. So I'm well aged and have a pretty wide breadth of experience, and find myself going back to school! So you CAN teach an old dog some new tricks huh? :]

Anyways, I suppose I'll step off that "Here's some inside advice platform" and go on to tell you that I took calculus for engineers up to CalIII in college and I don't remember much of it at all. This coming from an experienced graphics programmer. I don't think there is TOO much application to the highest levels of calculus except for those doing extensive research or civil engineers & theoretical physicists ;] . Fact of the matter is that especially where graphics are concerned, most problems can be expressed and solved pretty simply because for the most part the data sets you'll be working with are discrete and fairly predictable. The pragmatic mind will always win over here because really especially in the graphics arena...there is not much that is expressed based on physical models. So we say that it is not physically based. Most of it is illusion and complete approximation...and a creative and inventive mind will always win here (Though, physically based rendering is gaining hold here....quickly).

Game programming now revolves around conserving money and time (dev cycles are MUCH more expensive and a bit longer) which means code reusability becomes paramount. Secondly, the console market dominates the decisions in most studios. This means two things to you. First, as opposed to 10 years ago, they're going to want people who are exceptionally good at engineering solutions for platforms that ARE'NT windows on your intel x86 chips....that's done. So, sorry as it is to say..there are not many folks who are self motivated to venture into that territory without the push an engineering course of study will give you. Secondly, it means that at the top level, the code is going to be exceptionally more generic and polymorphic. This is to say that you'd be developing code that can last through the ages and be efficient. My case in point is that one of the most revolutionary game engines of the past 6 years (source...ahem) was built around COM. If you were to say you were going to do that 10 years ago you'd probably be met with something along the order of spears of death and pitchforks. It is evident though that even though Source is aging, it remains a profitable and relatively competitive engine. So this makes college very important for you in this era.

So bottom line. Do something computer related in school. Do well. Keep on writing some games! :]
Read the newest papers...keep up with Siggraph, GDC talks, the new technology....see where it's going! Listen to what the major players have to say when they talk. Stay ahead of the curve. You'll be golden ;]

try not to focus on the fact that you don't know java as well as the other kids. Honestly, the languages are similar enough that you should be able to find out how "todo something in java" in 10seconds flat on google. Being completely honest, it just sounds like they have more experience. Java and c++ are similar enough that you should have no trouble going between the two.

As for the math, I was one of the dipshits who joined college after taking algebra II in highschool. I've retaken precalc twice, trig twice, and differential calculus once. I now have an A, B, A in that order. Now I'm in integral calculus seeing my fellow classmates who can't do simple arithmatic.

Moral of the story, if your doing well in your math classes, your lightyears ahead of where I was. Keep at it.
I love this. This is my favorite. It's so true lol. I think proving things in pure mathematics has been the biggest eye opener for me since I got here.

Im actually surprised, AP Calc in Junior and Senior Year is a norm here in my area, some guys do it in like Freshmand Sophomore year...