Elysian Shadows

well.. language-ist

i keep seeing and hearing how people in ignorance say bad things about languages all the time.
and even extending to viewing someone as a bad programmer if they use said language.

the negro of the programming world of course has to be visual basic.
(please dont get on my case i just used this as an allegory)

exhibit A.


something a user posted... now this just conveys the complete ignorance of the programming-racist.

now we all do, i know i do it from time to time. we like to think the language we use is the best for friggen everything. but it just is not.
so maybe something we need to think about next time we open our big mouths.

ps: there is not exhibit B, i just wanter to say exhibit.

Visual Basic certainly has it's place. But, at my last job, I had to support some VB6 apps, and I fuckin' hated it. Honestly, I mostly hate the syntax. It's just too damn wordy. And having the keyword "Me" vs. "this" is just annoying. But, VB introduced many "black box" operations that benefit rapid development for business applications. ...much like .NET.

Performance wise, I can't say anything bad about VB.NET, since it's running on the same framework as C# - but I still hate that damn syntax.

trufun202 wrote:Visual Basic certainly has it's place. But, at my last job, I had to support some VB6 apps, and I fuckin' hated it. Honestly, I mostly hate the syntax. It's just too damn wordy. And having the keyword "Me" vs. "this" is just annoying. But, VB introduced many "black box" operations that benefit rapid development for business applications. ...much like .NET.

Performance wise, I can't way anything bad about VB.NET, since it's running on the same framework as C# - but I still hate that damn syntax.

patato potato no? objc uses self, not me or this. but i get what you are saying.

avansc, you're completely right.

Now let's take a look at exhibit B


Exhibit C



and Exzibit

I like the subtlety in the VB poster -- all the other holes are filled with the correct shape, and so the the only shape left doesn't fit.

I've never used VB, but I've seen it. It was different, thus it was scared me, and couldn't be good.

...Holy shit, you're right!

Visual Basic is great for doing what its meant to be used for: making quick GUI apps. I'll agree with the syntax. I so badly want to end every statement with a semicolon. It definitely doesn't have a place for making games. The picture avansc posted might be more angered towards the fact the guy was asked how to make an MMO, ala Gyro's StillaVirgin character.

Woo, way to start a thread to implicitly bash me, Ava.

No, I don't think an mmo should ever be written in Visual Basic. I don't see how anyone can. There definitely are Online RPG enginey things written in VB available online, but I don't think any of them have been decent. Professional companies definitely would never use Visual Basic for an MMORPG.

The whole point of my sketch-diary-entry, however, was not so much to make fun of Visual Basic, but to point out that absolute newbs constantly bombard me with IMs, emails, and other messages asking me how to make an MMO, GTA clone, Final Fantasy clone or whatever else that's obviously beyond their scope with their language of choice.

Moosader wrote:Woo, way to start a thread to bash me, Ava.

No, I don't think an mmo should ever be written in Visual Basic. I don't see how anyone can. There definitely are Online RPG enginey things written in VB available online, but I don't think any of them have been decent. Professional companies definitely would never use Visual Basic for an MMORPG.

The whole point of my sketch-diary-entry, however, was not so much to make fun of Visual Basic, but to point out that absolute newbs constantly bombard me with IMs, emails, and other messages asking me how to make an MMO, GTA clone, Final Fantasy clone or whatever else that's obviously beyond their scope with their language of choice.

I find this to happen a hell lot on other forums, this forum seems to be Idiot-prone
although there are some leaks from time to time(these leaks usually get their ego set down to -50 right before getting kicked in the balls out the front door).

Moosader wrote:Woo, way to start a thread to implicitly bash me, Ava.

No, I don't think an mmo should ever be written in Visual Basic. I don't see how anyone can. There definitely are Online RPG enginey things written in VB available online, but I don't think any of them have been decent. Professional companies definitely would never use Visual Basic for an MMORPG.

The whole point of my sketch-diary-entry, however, was not so much to make fun of Visual Basic, but to point out that absolute newbs constantly bombard me with IMs, emails, and other messages asking me how to make an MMO, GTA clone, Final Fantasy clone or whatever else that's obviously beyond their scope with their language of choice.

okay, if i was trying to implicitly bash you..
you were implicitly trying to convey that VB is shit.

there is no reason you cant make a MMO in VB. no reason what so ever. you associate newbs (people who cant program) with VB(a language to shit to even bother programming with).

i didnt name any names with the sketch. and it was in the private forum.

okay, if i was trying to implicitly bash you..
you were implicitly trying to convey that VB is shit.

Actually I'm pretty sure she was pointing out how many beginner programmers, the kind that only know how to use languages like VB, often don't know just how complex some games can be before wanting to attempt them themselves. Always a case of the more you know, the more you know you don't know anything. (That's a phrase btw, don't take it as a personal attack at you or anything.) It's more apparent to me that you just got upset by it and for some reason took it personally.

there is no reason you cant make a MMO in VB. no reason what so ever. you associate newbs (people who cant program) with VB(a language to shit(TY) to even bother programming with).

There's no reason you can't, but there's no reason you can't write an MMO in qbasic either with enough hacks and extra work if you're willing to give up a lot of efficiency and quality in the end. Again I don't recall her ever saying VB or any other language is "shitty" but pointed out that it's not exactly suited for the situation. Any decent programmer knows each language has it's advantages and disadvantages and when designing a massively complex program such as an MMO you typically can't accept a huge loss in efficiency. This is the exact reason they often hand optimize a lot of functions on mmo servers in assembler. Sure, again, they could have used VB but realistically it's just a bad idea. The same thing stands true that I wouldn't expect you to use C++ to make basic frontends for things like emulators and command line programs.

i didnt name any names with the sketch. and it was in the private forum.

No, but you posted it while knowing that a lot of people that frequent this forum know who she is, don't play innocence when you know exactly what you were doing. Personally I probably would have warned or banned you if I were an administrator on this forum, for starting such a useless topic to bash another member because she posted something that you didn't particularly like and then started stuffing words in her mouth.

oh god. come out of hiding behind a fake account coward.

Um, actually I just decided to join, though I've read messages here a few times. Maybe you should actually respond instead of calling me names, or you can always apologize to her and leave it at that.

Chaotis wrote:Um, actually I just decided to join, though I've read messages here a few times. Maybe you should actually respond instead of calling me names, or you can always apologize to her and leave it at that.

"Actually I'm pretty sure she was pointing out how many beginner programmers, the kind that only know how to use languages like VB, often don't know just how complex some games can be before wanting to attempt them themselves. Always a case of the more you know, the more you know you don't know anything. (That's a phrase btw, don't take it as a personal attack at you or anything.) It's more apparent to me that you just got upset by it and for some reason took it personally."

you completely missed what i was trying to say with that. that note implies that she does not have a good view of VB.
i never wanted to bash her personally, just used that as an example. i think if you read you will notice i include my self in the people that do this..

"There's no reason you can't, but there's no reason you can't write an MMO in qbasic either with enough hacks and extra work if you're willing to give up a lot of efficiency and quality in the end. Again I don't recall her ever saying VB or any other language is "shitty" but pointed out that it's not exactly suited for the situation. Any decent programmer knows each language has it's advantages and disadvantages and when designing a massively complex program such as an MMO you typically can't accept a huge loss in efficiency. This is the exact reason they often hand optimize a lot of functions on mmo servers in assembler. Sure, again, they could have used VB but realistically it's just a bad idea. The same thing stands true that I wouldn't expect you to use C++ to make basic frontends for things like emulators and command line programs."

VB is far more capable and complex than what you know, comparing it to qbasic is laughable.

"No, but you posted it while knowing that a lot of people that frequent this forum know who she is, don't play innocence when you know exactly what you were doing. Personally I probably would have warned or banned you if I were an administrator on this forum, for starting such a useless topic to bash another member because she posted something that you didn't particularly like and then started stuffing words in her mouth."

omg. this comming from someone who has never posted before. and according to her a personal friend.. your opinion is so unbiased...

something a user posted... now this just conveys the complete ignorance of the programming-racist.

I'm sorry but even if you try to lump yourself in with it after the fact it doesn't mean you're not bashing someone.

VB is far more capable and complex than what you know, comparing it to qbasic is laughable.

I never compared VB to qbasic, I was making a point. You also have no right to tell me VB is more capable than I know when you don't even know who I am. I'm fairly understanding of what it can or shouldn't do.

omg. this comming from someone who has never posted before. and according to her a personal friend.. your opinion is so unbiased...

Actually, most of my bias comes from reading some of your other remarks all over this forum.

now we all do, i know i do it from time to time. we like to think the language we use is the best for friggen everything. but it just is not.
so maybe something we need to think about next time we open our big mouths.

Interesting that I read the post several times and for some reason didn't catch this, hopefully it wasn't an edit. Sorry if my missing it changed my opinion of the post somewhat, it's still not a very smart thing to make an example out of someone else that you know will see and may take offense, especially when it was obviously taken out of context.