Elysian Shadows

Ok, Our newly founded IT club (from http://it-advnetures.org) is about robotics cyber defence and game programming (easy alice no C (hatas)).

Ok, i'm looking for help on language choice for the following items (and suported langauges)

Robotics: supports RobotC (c similar uses C to alot but with robot library) and pbLua haven't look into but idk wich to recomend the kids at school to learn and use (let me remind you they have no programming background (from what i know of)). I't be nice to get some help with this.

Cyber Defence: Ok i'm on this. they teach PHP?MYSQL/ and have to know tcp/ip and stuff it's pretty much learning how to hack and stop hacking. we set up a server and then have to have them try to "hack" it. I was wondering if i should ask them if i could use perl instead of PHP (if not i do have a php book to learn) (i figure i can grab perl quickly and have lots of power afterwards).

Game Development: just wondering on some techniques on teaching programming with alice. I figure i'll be like Gyro and use a whiteboard (duh) but have them come up and interact with it you know? but i just want advice on how to kinda pass info on to them.

thbp wrote: Cyber Defence: Ok i'm on this. they teach PHP?MYSQL/ and have to know tcp/ip and stuff it's pretty much learning how to hack and stop hacking. we set up a server and then have to have them try to "hack" it. I was wondering if i should ask them if i could use perl instead of PHP (if not i do have a php book to learn) (i figure i can grab perl quickly and have lots of power afterwards). .

If you want to do anything with web security I definitely recommend learning at least some PHP. Some knowledge of both PHP and Perl will allow you to choose which tool is right for the job.

what about robots i don't want the kids learning C when they could learn Lua and be doing the same thing???? (though the NXT book uses RobotC

thbp wrote:what about robots i don't want the kids learning C when they could learn Lua and be doing the same thing???? (though the NXT book uses RobotC

Never played with that, can't help ya there.

thbp wrote:Ok, Our newly founded IT club (from http://it-advnetures.org) is about robotics cyber defence and game programming (easy alice no C (hatas)).

Ok, i'm looking for help on language choice for the following items (and suported langauges)

Robotics: supports RobotC (c similar uses C to alot but with robot library) and pbLua haven't look into but idk wich to recomend the kids at school to learn and use (let me remind you they have no programming background (from what i know of)). I't be nice to get some help with this.

Cyber Defence: Ok i'm on this. they teach PHP?MYSQL/ and have to know tcp/ip and stuff it's pretty much learning how to hack and stop hacking. we set up a server and then have to have them try to "hack" it. I was wondering if i should ask them if i could use perl instead of PHP (if not i do have a php book to learn) (i figure i can grab perl quickly and have lots of power afterwards).

Game Development: just wondering on some techniques on teaching programming with alice. I figure i'll be like Gyro and use a whiteboard (duh) but have them come up and interact with it you know? but i just want advice on how to kinda pass info on to them.

Robotics: something like NXT-G is very good if they're total beginners (it's basically drag-and-drop programming, but still has a lot of the base concepts).

Cyber Defense: uhmm.... I don't know, but php/sql sounds good for a server they can try to hack... linux has a lot of useful tools for security (like nmap), and I know that C/++ and assembly are good for creating backdoors/viruses

Game Development: idk about alice, but I think what you should do is set them up with a preprogrammed library of some sort (preferably one that makes things REALLY easy) and then have them start with something small (tic tac toe or pong), then go on to something more complex (arcade games, probably... maybe pacman?). As they learn how to do these things they will gain experience and, by experimenting, they will find ways to do complex things in fewer steps. If they're having trouble grasping the basics, have them create some console programs (calculator, console tic tac toe, etc.) that will introduce them to all the necessary concepts. Also make sure that you're fairly proficient with the language you are teaching them, as I have heard horror stories about programming teachers that never use the languages they teach, and really can't help their students

It is required they use alcie (it-adventres.com) i just talke to my uncle bout linux for defense. don't know on robots thouhg

Idk if your bot will have the right ports or not, but I am on a robotics team (team 2856 "planetary drive"), and we program our bot in java. Last year i think the bot was programmed with... labView? anyway, java is a major improvement, especially since almost everyone on the team knows java, and no one knows labview

Hm this is a great idea, I wonder if I can get Mr. Klein (My name is Mr. Kline we have similar last names!) to start up a club like this, how did you go about setting this up and getting people interested?

PS. there is a typo in your link. should be http://it-adventures.org

Robotics: If the people at your school have no former programming experience I would highly recommend using the NXT-G software that comes with the NXT or some other drag-and-click type of programming. As for RobotC, my school is participating in a competition that uses it but we are using a language called NXC instead which runs specifically for the NXT with no need for new firmware. The syntax for NXC is a little bit different than that of RobotC however. Only use RobotC if you think that the people who would be joining you're team would be able to program well in it.

There are people who take your advice on things?

I don't consider drag and drop to be programming. Go with Java, its pretty darn user friendly.

OmegaGDS wrote:I don't consider drag and drop to be programming. Go with Java, its pretty darn user friendly.

In Game Maker - you DnD actions, which really just write to GML anyway. You have if, else, blocks, etc. While your not writing the actual textual code, are you not "programming" by definition?

http://www.google.com.au/search?aq=f&hl ... rogramming

Definitions of programming on the Web:

* scheduling: setting an order and time for planned events
* creating a sequence of instructions to enable the computer to do something

DragnDrop is one of the best ways to teach people programming without going to fast. Some people just learn things faster in a graphical way rather then text-based.

Live-Dimension wrote:

OmegaGDS wrote:I don't consider drag and drop to be programming. Go with Java, its pretty darn user friendly.

In Game Maker - you DnD actions, which really just write to GML anyway. You have if, else, blocks, etc. While your not writing the actual textual code, are you not "programming" by definition?

http://www.google.com.au/search?aq=f&hl ... rogramming

Definitions of programming on the Web:

* scheduling: setting an order and time for planned events
* creating a sequence of instructions to enable the computer to do something

DragnDrop is one of the best ways to teach people programming without going to fast. Some people just learn things faster in a graphical way rather then text-based.

I guess it depends on which web definition you choose.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl ... d=0CAcQkAE

Computer programming (often shortened to programming or coding) is the process of writing, testing, debugging/troubleshooting, and maintaining the source code of computer programs. This source code is written in a programming language. The code may be a modification of an existing source or something completely new. The purpose of programming is to create a program that exhibits a certain desired behaviour (customization). The process of writing source code often requires expertise in many different subjects, including knowledge of the application domain, specialized algorithms and formal logic.

So, in drag n' drop, you don't actually write the code? According to this definition, writing is part of programming. Although I do agree with you that DND is a good way to teach people the theory and basics behind programming.

Sorry, I'm biased. I learned the textual way.