Elysian Shadows

As I said before I am a noob but please don't make fun, I've read many posts on here, watched all of the Adventures in Game Development videos, and Beginner videos. It really has inspired me. I know that expecting to much is the downfall of many good games, I'm different than the others who come on many dev forums seeking help making an mmo with no experience, I mean yea it would be cool but i know that is to much to expect. I want to start simple and slowly move onto more advance things. I have dabbled a little bit in C++ but found it a bit complicated (This was before i watched the Gyrovorbis beginner videos). I plan on starting with DarkBasic because of Falco's suggestions on starting with a game oriented language, the main reason being (not that it gives a huge amount of programming experience) but it gives a glimpse of the development process. I then want to move onto C# and Xna, I know that there are many mixed feelings about it here, The main reason is for X-box 360 development and Dream Build Play and then later moving onto a high level language(C++).


Thank you for listening,
I'm only 12 so please don't use harsh terms(especially on my spelling).

Im not an expert myself, but i think C# and XNA is a very good choice. I find Java much easier than C++, and Java and C# reminds quite a bit of each other (afaik).
Btw i think you've got the meaning of high-level language wrong? I know that C++ is a high-level language, but C# is "higher"-level.

ismetteren wrote:Im not an expert myself, but i think C# and XNA is a very good choice. I find Java much easier than C++, and Java and C# reminds quite a bit of each other (afaik).
Btw i think you've got the meaning of high-level language wrong? I know that C++ is a high-level language, but C# is "higher"-level.

I agree, C# / XNA is definitely going to help you learn the basics required to start with C++. No comment on Java (never even looked at its syntax really, just haven't gotten the chance).

C++ is fairly low level, although C and assembly are obviously lower. I usually use higher level to describe things like scripting languages, but it's definitely a relative term.

Best of luck with your programming endeavors, please post if you need help with Anything.

At your age, that's definitely a great way to start (oh, and by the way, your spelling is fine, I've seen much worse on this forum).

But if C++ seems confusing for you, all you do is work your way up to the top, get into higher level languages, and then work your way down.

I've never heard much about DarkBasic, but if your looking for suggestions, I hear Python is a wonderful place to start.

XianForce wrote:I hear Python is a wonderful place to start.

Yea, I know, I started with python before attempting c++ but it was so simple and i got ahead of myself and tried c++.
I also didn't want to start with it because I want programming and making games a my job after college. I thought that C# and C++ would look better when applying. Lol, anyways I hope to one day have my own software and games company.


Thanks for replies,
Zach.

You did not just call Python simple

Just because C++ is harder than Python, doesn't make it a better language. Python is simply of a higher abstraction. Usually when you go up in abstraction, you sacrifice efficiency for expressiveness. Python is simple and powerful, do not confuse power with efficiency. As a beginner (and being 12) I would advice you to have as much fun as you can coding. Writing games is a complex task, and doing it in C++ will make it even harder.

Good programmers know many languages, so it would be silly to only put down C++ for an app. I don't think anyone will higher you if you only know one language. From that young of an age though, if you set yourself on the right track, you can become a top notch programmer. Besides, by the time you're out of college, you can forget about C++. By then CPUs will have hundreds of cores, and it will be all about concurrent programming. The head guy of the gears of war team was talking about a switch from C++ to Haskell in the future of gaming.. I don't have the link now, but I can post it if you want.

Having said that, pick up Python and have fun. Learn C++ later, and learn when it's best to use it. I would usually advice going the open source route if you can. Don't lock yourself into a single language/framework.

hayk0510 wrote:
I would advice you to have as much fun as you can coding. Writing games is a complex task, and doing it in C++ will make it even harder.

I found programming to be fun with c++ but it was a little to complicated for me at the time so that's why I'm reverting back to simpler languages like DB, Python, whatever.
Also my aunt is a computer programmer and she said that a lot of the time teaching yourself to program isn't always the best way to learn because you may pick up bad and/or sloppy habits. Also what languages do you think will be the next big developing languages?

ZachO wrote:

hayk0510 wrote:
I would advice you to have as much fun as you can coding. Writing games is a complex task, and doing it in C++ will make it even harder.

I found programming to be fun with c++ but it was a little to complicated for me at the time so that's why I'm reverting back to simpler languages like DB, Python, whatever.
Also my aunt is a computer programmer and she said that a lot of the time teaching yourself to program isn't always the best way to learn because you may pick up bad and/or sloppy habits. Also what languages do you think will be the next big developing languages?

I can see what your aunt means by "sloppy habbits," but if you are able to teach yourself a language and you do things effectively, i don't think it matters about your programming "style." Unless of course your being paid for it or something, in that case, do whatever the person who pays you tells you too.

I started out from about as high-level as you can get - GML (Game Maker). From then I went to C# and then C++. I cannot stress enough how much easier I found learning c++ after going through C#. Stuff like OOP, good strong clean syntax, etc etc.

Two of my friends are going down the same path. You can of course go straight to c++ but you risk running yourself into the ground motivation wise. I'm pretty decent with c# but c++ has such a larger depth then I ever expected. I couldn't dream of learning c++ in one stroke.

Live-Dimension wrote:I started out from about as high-level as you can get - GML (Game Maker). From then I went to C# and then C++. I cannot stress enough how much easier I found learning c++ after going through C#. Stuff like OOP, good strong clean syntax, etc etc.

Two of my friends are going down the same path. You can of course go straight to c++ but you risk running yourself into the ground motivation wise. I'm pretty decent with c# but c++ has such a larger depth then I ever expected. I couldn't dream of learning c++ in one stroke.

Err, I guess you should do what ever works for you, but usually you don't learn about cars then engines then tools to work on those engines.
For instance, you are going to have a MUCH harder time if you learn C#/Java as your first language, and then start jumping into C/++, a language
with no built in garbage collecting. a language with real pointers. a language that is a lot less strict on what you can do.

The C programming language is TINY compared to languages like C#. It an easy language to learn if you are diligent in reading a good book, there are very few that
are better than "The C Programming Language". There is no reason to be afraid trying to learn C. conceptually it might be a little harder than C# or java, but there
is a lot less to cover.

I dabbled with Dark Basic a while back. From my experience I would say it's definitely a good choice to start with.

I agree there is no problem starting with C++, because the larger concepts that deviate it from C#/Java wont likely be an issue towards the start of your learning. Even if you do start getting into pointers if you use something like Visual Memory Leak Detector you can learn a lot through trial and error.

My college started us with Dark Basic, then went C, a bit of ASM, and then C++... Basically, the point of using DarkBASIC was to get out some game programming concepts, without worrying about difficult code.

In high school, we had True BASIC, C++, Java & HTML for a brief spell, then back to C++ over the course of the 4 years.

Trask wrote:My college started us with Dark Basic, then went C, a bit of ASM, and then C++... Basically, the point of using DarkBASIC was to get out some game programming concepts, without worrying about difficult code.

In high school, we had True BASIC, C++, Java & HTML for a brief spell, then back to C++ over the course of the 4 years.

You lucky dog. All my high school has is Java. I guess Java was a good place for me to start though.

avansc wrote:

Live-Dimension wrote:I started out from about as high-level as you can get - GML (Game Maker). From then I went to C# and then C++. I cannot stress enough how much easier I found learning c++ after going through C#. Stuff like OOP, good strong clean syntax, etc etc.

Two of my friends are going down the same path. You can of course go straight to c++ but you risk running yourself into the ground motivation wise. I'm pretty decent with c# but c++ has such a larger depth then I ever expected. I couldn't dream of learning c++ in one stroke.

Err, I guess you should do what ever works for you, but usually you don't learn about cars then engines then tools to work on those engines.
For instance, you are going to have a MUCH harder time if you learn C#/Java as your first language, and then start jumping into C/++, a language
with no built in garbage collecting. a language with real pointers. a language that is a lot less strict on what you can do.

The C programming language is TINY compared to languages like C#. It an easy language to learn if you are diligent in reading a good book, there are very few that
are better than "The C Programming Language". There is no reason to be afraid trying to learn C. conceptually it might be a little harder than C# or java, but there
is a lot less to cover.

Good and valid points. However, there is such thing as trying to learn too much at once and get bogged down because of it. It's like trying to train for a marathon by forcing yourself to run the entire distance at speed from the first day with no real prior training. It's far better to take it by walking most of the way first and then slow jogging, working your way up.

Yes, you can learn to do c/c++ bit by bit, but you can't actually DO anything with it until you know and understand almost all there is with c/c++ - such as memory management, templating, typedefs, etc that most of the other simpler languages don't have. I found it a real motivation killer trying to learn all there is about writing decent c++ and I already understand alot of it from other languages.

Live-Dimension wrote:

avansc wrote:

Live-Dimension wrote:I started out from about as high-level as you can get - GML (Game Maker). From then I went to C# and then C++. I cannot stress enough how much easier I found learning c++ after going through C#. Stuff like OOP, good strong clean syntax, etc etc.

Two of my friends are going down the same path. You can of course go straight to c++ but you risk running yourself into the ground motivation wise. I'm pretty decent with c# but c++ has such a larger depth then I ever expected. I couldn't dream of learning c++ in one stroke.

Err, I guess you should do what ever works for you, but usually you don't learn about cars then engines then tools to work on those engines.
For instance, you are going to have a MUCH harder time if you learn C#/Java as your first language, and then start jumping into C/++, a language
with no built in garbage collecting. a language with real pointers. a language that is a lot less strict on what you can do.

The C programming language is TINY compared to languages like C#. It an easy language to learn if you are diligent in reading a good book, there are very few that
are better than "The C Programming Language". There is no reason to be afraid trying to learn C. conceptually it might be a little harder than C# or java, but there
is a lot less to cover.

Good and valid points. However, there is such thing as trying to learn too much at once and get bogged down because of it. It's like trying to train for a marathon by forcing yourself to run the entire distance at speed from the first day with no real prior training. It's far better to take it by walking most of the way first and then slow jogging, working your way up.

Yes, you can learn to do c/c++ bit by bit, but you can't actually DO anything with it until you know and understand almost all there is with c/c++ - such as memory management, templating, typedefs, etc that most of the other simpler languages don't have. I found it a real motivation killer trying to learn all there is about writing decent c++ and I already understand alot of it from other languages.

you CAN do pretty much anything without ever using memory management. and "typedef", PS: type def is NOT a storage container, its just a tool for making synonyms.

The C99 standard says this,

"The typedef specifier is called a "storage-class specifier" of syntactical convenience only."

i really think you have a misconception of C.