Elysian Shadows

(FIRSTLY this title is completely sarcastic, I do not mean that in any way at all, and there is no way in hell I believe Falco is wrong)


I stumbled across this video and decided to see this guys opinion was on starting game development:


I honesly feel violated...like my very soul has been molested by the twisted words of this asstalker. (a being who verbally communicates out of their posterior)
He has a few videos like this but this one is the shortest, therefore the most bearable.

I don't know what to say. This really should be removed from YouTube...
But honestly, thanks Falco for your getting started videos, the above video is proof that it is incredibly helpful

(incase I skruud'd up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Qk0pod ... h_response)

Yea i have seen that guy and his band of dickheads. I remember being on his chat and they were all badmouthing linux cause "windows can do more". And the shit he spills out horrifys me. He talks about things as if he is a professional, he makes me puke.

hah, this dude again...
so he's like one of the most probably prominent people on youtube just because most people think he knows what he talks about. most of the time he does, but sometimes he admits that he doesn't really a bunch of sentences too late.
well though have a look at what people write in the chat; that he should start with a "3ds max trial" or "maya"... yeah so those are the real badass guys At least they know more than I do when they say one can actually program in 3ds max^^
Compared to this bundled ignorance of the matter I find it quite decent what he says xD (and to be honest, xna is not too bad of a start. easy way to get into real programming, and its not a game maker, which would declaredly be just as fine for some people)


---edit---
And dont forget to take a look at the YouTube comments x)

Xbox360 has a marketplace with a section specifically for Indie developers(small teams of developers) This indie catagory supports Microsofts XNA programming language which is a simple language.
toaster468

I'm just saying^^

I've seen some of the videos posted by that guy, and honestly I can't bare his advice about programming, he even admitted in one video that he has no experience with programming or anything involving it, but he still tries giving people "advice" about something he knows nothing about, and then the comments, well I don't even think I need to express my opinion about the comments because all of those comments are humorous non-sense.

He doesn't say anything grievously wrong... Well, until he says that XNA is the better choice; although, if the kid ONLY wants to make indie games, and doesn't have a whole lot of interest in commercial development, XNA isn't a horrible choice. I think the caller was really asking the wrong guy for advice though

Ginto8 wrote:He doesn't say anything grievously wrong... Well, until he says that XNA is the better choice; although, if the kid ONLY wants to make indie games, and doesn't have a whole lot of interest in commercial development, XNA isn't a horrible choice. I think the caller was really asking the wrong guy for advice though

well it really isn't his fault. He obviously can't dscriminate between who can give good advice and who can give bad advice. But I would be surprised if he was able to, because he doesn't really know at all what he's looking for, and who should have told him whom to call? Nobody.
And if that boy's really interested in getting into the games he'd better be joining us xD
jk, I'm sure he'll find his way through it if he cares for seeking it.
at least unless he's hired by JFail

Ginto8 wrote:He doesn't say anything grievously wrong... Well, until he says that XNA is the better choice;

That is actually the only thing he said.. :/ it's not a bad way to get someone quickly off your back. He's going to get excited really fast, and dishearted twice as fast when he realizes how little affect he has on the flow.

I would personally tell him to learn a programming language first, to get a feel. Unless he's got a shitload of money to assemble a team of programmers and designers.

OMG, i cant believe i just wtached that whole video, at first i was like " Ohh, this dude looks like he knows what hes taking about." then he started talking.....

cypher1554R wrote:

Ginto8 wrote:He doesn't say anything grievously wrong... Well, until he says that XNA is the better choice;

That is actually the only thing he said..

Well, I was more referring to his dismissal of learning C++. I understand direction toward an easy framework like XNA, and if he simply recommended it as a possibility, I'd actually back him up. However, C++ was brought up, and he dismissed it offhand and without giving reason, and that's what I think is the biggest issue.

Yeah, XNA is good to learn, im still in the process of learning it myself, But how can he not even contimplate C++? This is what shocked me.

Apparently to this guy, you shouldn't start with C, C++ or C# and stay with microsoft's platforms.
So he is saying we should use XNA, but stay away from C#? You know, the language you need to use with it?

He's like: "fuck that shit, C# can lick my poopie. Just use visual studio to write games with XNA"

Its extremely apparent that this guy has no idea what he is talking about and looks like we've all come to that concensus.

If he asked me I would have suggested to learn C/C++ so he can get a good grip on all the concepts.

I would have suggested Game Maker/Blitz Plus/Pygame for a while and then move onto C++ (pick your poison).
I don't think this to be absolutely necessary, they will just help you understand some of the concepts much easier and also you get quick results so it might keep their interest, before moving onto a harder language.

I agree that this guy is a tool sometimes. He talks about a lot of things he has no background knowledge on when he should, instead, humbly respond that he has almost no relevant background on the topic.

However, why the hate on XNA? I still stand by the fact that it's an incredibly powerful platform for learning game development. It teaches you how to program with entities/gameobjects in a good foundational way (one update loop, one rendering loop - each gameobject contains its own logic and the logic affecting an entity is connected up the stack), has a handy built-in component architecture for system-level components, has tremendous high-quality tutorial support, and gives you full control over pretty much every aspect of the game (except the Content Pipeline, which in itself is well-engineered and makes getting things up on screen easier).

About my only qualm with XNA is that it makes certain architectures, like a Component-Entity architecture, more difficult to approach - but when starting out I didn't need to worry about that anyway. A plus side to XNA having a particular sort of architecture is that it strongly discouraged the use of deep inheritance hierarchies which is one of the ugliest and worst OOD traps to fall into, in my opinion. Inheritance rocks, but only when you use it to achieve a certain goal that fits (like the need for statically defined polymorphism) - but deep inheritance hierarchies aren't necessary for that or anything else really. Makes me think of my comp sci instructor touching upon inheritance hierarchies one class and finishing up with: "but in the real-world, there are actually far better ways of doing this" and then highlighting their limitations. He's great, most of his experience is from industry and he's not afraid to point out when there are better/alternative ways of doing things than what the introductory textbooks are teaching. XNA as a platform takes a similar approach and it's tutorials are geared towards solutions that work in the real world with a fairly large degree of scalability.

I think that, ultimately, it's best to move past XNA to get a taste of other platforms/libraries for developing on. If you want to get into any systems programming this is especially true. When you're developing a rendering system, physics system, AI, procedurally generated content, etc; it's good to have more freedom with the architecture you're using. Then there's the fact that you might as well be interacting with cutting edge elements of the hardware you're working with if you're developing a rendering or physics system. Of course, if you go far enough with that you're no longer working on entire game - you're specializing on a particular piece of the game since the level of complexity is so deep that it will take your full attention (even John Carmack, who apparently regularly works 80 hour weeks and is one of THE best game systems programmer out there works almost exclusively on the engine and it takes him a good year to a few years before the rest of the team can really touch it). There's nothing wrong with that, I just think it's good to get your hands in a bit of everything before you focus in too much. I definitely feel like it's been good for me - especially when working with others.

XNA is a great place to start though and really give yourself a taste, at a level an amateur can work with, of everything that goes into making a high quality game.

I say start from scratch and learn it all yourself, and not be like most Indie Developers that whip out a simple game and charge money for it so that loads of people go out and buy it and then you're rich off some shitty ass game.

I say, learn C/C++ and go at it. It may take you longer, but hell whenever you get something done you'll feel really accomplished.