Elysian Shadows

Hey, I'm new to the forums so I hope I don't come off as a dick by my first thread being a request for art. I have been developing small games since I was kid and recently I have ported my 2D Game Engine (Written in C++) to OpenGL (Previously using SDL). While this is all great and what not as many programmers will tell you it takes a lot to get a game from working to ready to release. With that said I have made multiple games that have never been released and would really like this to be my first. Here's some info on the game:

Title: [Unknown As of Yet]
Style: 2D Side Scroller
Idea: Basically it is your standard Zombie-Slaying co-op game. It's going to have arcade-style gameplay where a group of (up to 4) players will continue to blow zombies brains out, moving from level to level, until they can no longer survive.
Notes: There is a lot of room for creativity and outside input from any members of the project as it's very basic right now and I don't like to design how the game will work without input from multiple members of the group (it's their game too, they should be able to help out if they want to).

So right off the bat I know a lot of people are going to say this seems ambitious, and they might even be quick to assume it's too big of a task for me and I will realize that I as progress. Well, let me assure you this isn't too big of a task, in fact it's the perfect size for me and that's why it CAN be my first released game. I have worked on side-scrollers, top-downs, RPGs, puzzle games, etc. I have plenty of experience to write the game, I just want a small group of people to help make the game look nice and polished.

[Info for anyone interested]

Pros of the project:
-I will take care of organization and file hosting
-I'll worry about scheduling of deadlines, etc if need be
-There is a possibility that we could sell the game for a few bucks if the quality is good enough (Each member will get an equal amount of the profit if we do sell it, I won't take anymore than anyone else gets)
-There's a lot of room for your own creative input
-I get my shit done, If I say I'll have something done, it'll be done

Cons of the project:
-It's very open right now, so we have to give it some direction
-We have NO art, and very little if any usable music
-I don't like lazy people and I will get on your ass if you tell me you'll do something and you don't

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to PM me or send me an email if you'd prefer!
Email: JakeIrle@gmail.com

Thank you!

Hi Jake, welcome to the forums. We're perfectly fine with you advertising your project here, we encourage it! Though I'm not sure how much luck you'll have finding artists available for work around these parts, there is plenty of programmer knowledge to be shared.

dandymcgee wrote:Hi Jake, welcome to the forums. We're perfectly fine with you advertising your project here, we encourage it! Though I'm not sure how much luck you'll have finding artists available for work around these parts, there is plenty of programmer knowledge to be shared.

Thanks for the warm welcome! That's a bit unfortunate but I suppose I didn't think about this forum being more programmer-oriented haha That's alright too though because I'd be glad to maybe move this project to the "Game Development" section and instead just get some opinions from more experienced programmers and/or other members of the forum. Really excited to contribute more and more to the community as I can!

We definitely do have a few REALLY good pixelers/artists around these parts... but they're mostly working on their own projects (or ES), I think.

Pros of the project:
-I will take care of organization and file hosting
-I'll worry about scheduling of deadlines, etc if need be
-There is a possibility that we could sell the game for a few bucks if the quality is good enough (Each member will get an equal amount of the profit if we do sell it, I won't take anymore than anyone else gets)
-There's a lot of room for your own creative input
-I get my shit done, If I say I'll have something done, it'll be done

Cons of the project:
-It's very open right now, so we have to give it some direction
-We have NO art, and very little if any usable music
-I don't like lazy people and I will get on your ass if you tell me you'll do something and you don't

With all the "I will"'s it sounds like you don't have much of the game done. Extremely few artists would willingly join a random project that has no art and no progress. Get a demo with placeholder graphics and someone might be more motivated to help.

SomeAwesomeUsername wrote:

Pros of the project:
-I will take care of organization and file hosting
-I'll worry about scheduling of deadlines, etc if need be
-There is a possibility that we could sell the game for a few bucks if the quality is good enough (Each member will get an equal amount of the profit if we do sell it, I won't take anymore than anyone else gets)
-There's a lot of room for your own creative input
-I get my shit done, If I say I'll have something done, it'll be done

Cons of the project:
-It's very open right now, so we have to give it some direction
-We have NO art, and very little if any usable music
-I don't like lazy people and I will get on your ass if you tell me you'll do something and you don't

With all the "I will"'s it sounds like you don't have much of the game done. Extremely few artists would willingly join a random project that has no art and no progress. Get a demo with placeholder graphics and someone might be more motivated to help.

None of the "I will's" have anything to do with the game itself, and I already explained that the game isn't far in progress and why that won't be a problem. You simply restated what I already did and tried to make it seem like I insufficiently described the task at hand. Please read more carefully, thank you.

Edit: Just a side note, if you would have just merely suggested that a working demo would attract more artists and only said that I probably would have just taken it as friendly advice. However, seeing how you failed to accurately assess my post and furthermore tried to make it seem like I was asking for something with insufficient explanation, it just seems a bit absurd. In addition, you are a newbie to the forms with about as little credibility as I, so that further added to the ridiculousness of your post.

JakeIrle wrote:
None of the "I will's" have anything to do with the game itself, and I already explained that the game isn't far in progress and why that won't be a problem. You simply restated what I already did and tried to make it seem like I insufficiently described the task at hand. Please read more carefully, thank you.

Edit: Just a side note, if you would have just merely suggested that a working demo would attract more artists and only said that I probably would have just taken it as friendly advice. However, seeing how you failed to accurately assess my post and furthermore tried to make it seem like I was asking for something with insufficient explanation, it just seems a bit absurd. In addition, you are a newbie to the forms with about as little credibility as I, so that further added to the ridiculousness of your post.

The I will's have to do with the development of the game. Creating a shit ton of art and having it never see the light of day because other parts of development failed really sucks. By putting up a demo, or at least past work, you prove that you can hold up to your end of the bargain.

That being said...I would be more than happy to help if I saw something with placeholder art

SomeAwesomeUsername wrote:

JakeIrle wrote:
None of the "I will's" have anything to do with the game itself, and I already explained that the game isn't far in progress and why that won't be a problem. You simply restated what I already did and tried to make it seem like I insufficiently described the task at hand. Please read more carefully, thank you.

Edit: Just a side note, if you would have just merely suggested that a working demo would attract more artists and only said that I probably would have just taken it as friendly advice. However, seeing how you failed to accurately assess my post and furthermore tried to make it seem like I was asking for something with insufficient explanation, it just seems a bit absurd. In addition, you are a newbie to the forms with about as little credibility as I, so that further added to the ridiculousness of your post.

The I will's have to do with the development of the game. Creating a shit ton of art and having it never see the light of day because other parts of development failed really sucks. By putting up a demo, or at least past work, you prove that you can hold up to your end of the bargain.

That being said...I would be more than happy to help if I saw something with placeholder art

Okay, look, it's literally as if you don't understand English or you just didn't read my original post and/or my comment, I'm not gonna waste my time on your stupidity. No, thank you very much for the offer, but I would not like your help. You may continue to post on this thread, it's not my forum, I will just no longer be responding to your clearly brilliant insight.

JakeIrle wrote:Hey, I'm new to the forums so I hope I don't come off as a dick by my first thread being a request for art.

You didn't, but I'd say you did come off as a dick by your response to SomeAwesomeUsername. He was just offering some advice and potentially his help, but you threw that in his face. He was in no way demeaning you or your skills. Sometimes development does not pan out how you want it, so if someone is going to get on board with your project, it's nice to see something a bit more tangible. You've stated a brief synopsis of the game already, so show some more. A demo is a great way to show everyone that you've already put appropriate thought into the design of the game and know what you're looking for in art. I'm sure many more would be happy to join up with you if you at least fleshed out the design of your game a bit more. It gives the artist a bit more to go with than some stranger's word on the internet.

So ease up on the guy, that's a typical response you'd see from an artists.

While JakeIrle may have seemed a bit rude in his response, SomeAwesomeUsername clearly did not go back and read the original post comprehensively. Even the bit he quoted only had two "I wills":
"I will take care of organization and file hosting"
"I'll worry about scheduling of deadlines, etc if need be"

Both of these are very easy tasks, and can't possibly be done before an artist is on board. They are completed unrelated to a demo or having your art "never see the light of day because other parts of development failed really sucks".

The OP is obviously looking for a partner to help him create a game which he has in mind and is highly motivated to start working on, not to hire an artist to make better art for an already existing game.

@JakeIrle: Please do not take your frustration out verbally on someone who clearly does not understand your intentions or capabilities. You should be willing to restate your case more verbosely if someone interested in helping finds it unclear. When advertising a team position, be sure to include a list of expected responsibilities. It seems at though you want not only an artist, but someone who is willing to flesh out game design ideas and help contribute to the project as a whole. While this may seem obvious to you, the thread title doesn't quite make it so.

@SomeAwesomeUsername: Spend less time stereotyping indie developers as lazy assholes who use artists to make cool tech demos then never complete a game, and more time trying to find out about this particular project and what the developer has in mind if you really are interested in helping create a game. It sounds to me like you want someone to hand you a completed game with placeholder art so you can replace it with slightly better art and walk away with half the profits.

This thread went bad fast, I didn't mean for my original comment to come off as mean. It's just that threads like these pop up on every game development forum across the web.

Somebody posts that they have an idea and want somebody to work with them, but they don't post anything to prove that they have any experience themselves.

dandymcgee wrote:The OP is obviously looking for a partner to help him create a game which he has in mind and is highly motivated to start working on, not to hire an artist to make better art for an already existing game.

And that's the part I misunderstood. I read

JakeIrle wrote:I just want a small group of people to help make the game look nice and polished.

and saw the original post as the typical, "I'll need 10,000 artists to create my dream game" scenario. He said it himself that it was ambitious, but didn't provide any real experience - just words.

dandymcgee wrote:@SomeAwesomeUsername: Spend less time stereotyping indie developers as lazy assholes who use artists to make cool tech demos then never complete a game, and more time trying to find out about this particular project and what the developer has in mind if you really are interested in helping create a game. It sounds to me like you want someone to hand you a completed game with placeholder art so you can replace it with slightly better art and walk away with half the profits.

I'll take the advice of stop stereotyping, I definitely should work on that haha .
But without seeing a prototype or a portfolio, personally, I wouldn't be willing to work on a random project.


All in all, my bad for starting an argument and good luck with your project JakeIrle.

SomeAwesomeUsername wrote:This thread went bad fast, I didn't mean for my original comment to come off as mean. It's just that threads like these pop up on every game development forum across the web.

Somebody posts that they have an idea and want somebody to work with them, but they don't post anything to prove that they have any experience themselves.

dandymcgee wrote:The OP is obviously looking for a partner to help him create a game which he has in mind and is highly motivated to start working on, not to hire an artist to make better art for an already existing game.

And that's the part I misunderstood. I read

JakeIrle wrote:I just want a small group of people to help make the game look nice and polished.

and saw the original post as the typical, "I'll need 10,000 artists to create my dream game" scenario. He said it himself that it was ambitious, but didn't provide any real experience - just words.

dandymcgee wrote:@SomeAwesomeUsername: Spend less time stereotyping indie developers as lazy assholes who use artists to make cool tech demos then never complete a game, and more time trying to find out about this particular project and what the developer has in mind if you really are interested in helping create a game. It sounds to me like you want someone to hand you a completed game with placeholder art so you can replace it with slightly better art and walk away with half the profits.

I'll take the advice of stop stereotyping, I definitely should work on that haha .
But without seeing a prototype or a portfolio, personally, I wouldn't be willing to work on a random project.


All in all, my bad for starting an argument and good luck with your project JakeIrle.

All I meant by a group of people was like a guy for art, a guy for sound, and me lol... not ten thousand. Anyway, yes, I suppose I was a bit rude, I'm sorry for that. Also, fair enough, I suppose the title is a bit misleading, although I really am just looking for an artist, I guess my idea of an artist does not fit the criteria for most, I wasn't thinking that some artists would just wanna make the art, send it, and call it a day, I figured they'd want to be a part of the development and I that's my fault for assuming. I'll be more specific from now on as well as work on restating my intentions to those who misunderstand them before going off on them.

Edit: Also, I DO have a working demo and I update progress, etc frequently on my Facebook group for the project. If you are interested in helping at all, do you have a Facebook? I think you'd get a good idea of the dedication I have to it as well as see concrete updates, demos, etc if you'd like.

Hey there, as art guy of Elysian Shadows, I think I can give you some tips:

Generally you can either have good art fast for moneyz, or bad art slowly for free. And I'm not even kidding. Every artist out there thats worth their salt (in terms of skill, productivity or just generally being professional) works for money, those that lack those quantities look for projects to work for to gather up experience.

That's because, unlike programmers, that can get "boring jobs" to pay their bills, artists can't do that. There's literally no "boring job" for pixel artist, or any 2D artist. There might be the case for 3d artists that work for ad companies, but those have such incredible amount of skill, that they can get paid "off time projects" easily anyway.

We, as ES team, have been through 12... I think. Yeah, I think it was free 12 artists in last year. Then Falco finally decided to fuck it all and hire me.

I'm not saying that you won't get talented artist for your project, it's just that there's extremely low possibility of such thing happening and you should prepare yourself for a disappointment.

Imrooniel wrote:Hey there, as art guy of Elysian Shadows, I think I can give you some tips:

Generally you can either have good art fast for moneyz, or bad art slowly for free. And I'm not even kidding. Every artist out there thats worth their salt (in terms of skill, productivity or just generally being professional) works for money, those that lack those quantities look for projects to work for to gather up experience.

That's because, unlike programmers, that can get "boring jobs" to pay their bills, artists can't do that. There's literally no "boring job" for pixel artist, or any 2D artist. There might be the case for 3d artists that work for ad companies, but those have such incredible amount of skill, that they can get paid "off time projects" easily anyway.

We, as ES team, have been through 12... I think. Yeah, I think it was free 12 artists in last year. Then Falco finally decided to fuck it all and hire me.

I'm not saying that you won't get talented artist for your project, it's just that there's extremely low possibility of such thing happening and you should prepare yourself for a disappointment.

Hey, I very much appreciate your words of wisdom haha Actually, I came to this same conclusion shortly after my last post. I think there is quite a bit of truth to what you're saying and unless I personally knew an artist that was willing to help me out, I think I will be very hard pressed to find one willing and motivated to help me with my project. So, in acceptance with this realization I started looking through pixeljoint to see what I could find and I'm pretty confident that I could hire someone over there to help me out, but with that level of professionalism comes a price and a certain preparedness that they expect. So, unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to finish most of the game first and then hire an experienced artist to produce the quality of work that I seek.

Again, thanks for the info, appreciate it.