Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side?

Post by **Falco Girgis** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:06 pm

I think DJ Yoshi and I have the exact same views. That's what I think. Wow, that's exactly what I think. We share the exact same beliefs only I don't have faith in Christianity like he does.

I don't have faith period. That's why I'm agnostic.

But wow, I agree with DJ Yoshi.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:44 pm

DJ Yoshi wrote:And it still sounds stupid. If I didn't follow the bible, I'd follow what I know to be right, and what I think a truly loving and kind God would want, not your guys' vengeful evil god (and if you go by the Bible, that's what he is. He is not love. You guys are disillusioned if you think this).

Plz tell me what you think a kind and loving god to be. And all the bible is is a giant love letter i'm sorry you can't see that. and by the way where are you getting your bible knowledge from chris?and again i have not insulted anyone here, plz do not insult me, unless of course you do not have the capacity to argue civilly.

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:35 pm

You've insulted our beliefs and thoughts, our very way of thinking because it doesn't align with the way you think. That's worse than calling us names, because it 'invalidates' our very thought process in your mind and in the minds of anyone who believes the crap you push.

I get my knowledge of the bible from reading it. I've not read it more than once, and I don't plan on it. And no I'm not an expert on it. You don't have to be to realize that any rationalization of it is stupid (as per the English Catholic Church saying the bible is not to be taken literally).

I think a kind and loving god to be open to anyone morally good, but letting them live their lives. Like drug addicts who give to charity, and do more good for their communities than bad they do to their bodies, because honestly, why should god care that you're a druggy? So what? Why is it a big deal? Drug use is OLDER than Christianity, so why does God all of a sudden care now? He doesn't, the Church uses Him as a tool to promote anti-* sentiments that work for today's society's moral sets.

And don't pull Moral Relativism bullshit into this, before you even think about it. Don't know what that is? Wikipedia.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:55 pm

i'm not saying the bible is to be taken literally, in many places the bible does not make sense if taken literally, your correct. And if arguing civilly offends you i'm sorry, i haven't meant to isult anyone, i hav told you your thoughts are wrong as much as you have told me mine are, however you have done it more aggressively than anyone else and more offensively, if you can't handle this maybe you should not get so involved with this debate.
You say that a caring god should accept all the morally good and i tell you the truth when i say that he does, but he does not stop there he also accepts any1 morally evil, god has already accpted all of us to the most holy down to the most vile, he is waiting for us to accept him.And have you not been listening to me? what have i told you that would make you think god would not let a drug addict live, or any other sinner(and yes i include myself as a sinner), plz show me where i have told you this, becuz if i have said something of this nature then i have severely distorted the character of god, and i should correct it.
And when you say you have not read the bible more than once do you mean that as you haven't read the whole thing more than once, or you've only picked it up and read it once? if it is latter, i can understand where you are getting your misconceptions the bible is meant to be read in its entireity not in bits and pieces, once you have read it in its entirety is when god's character is fully revealed.and plz do not bring someone elses opinion into this, since i cannot rigthfully argue with a person that is not here, it's not really fair if you get my point, becuz i could argue against it but what would be the point since only the person you are quoting would uderstand it.

You say you are christian, plz tell me what kind of character god has in your eyes, if it is an evil, vendictive, angry image then why are you worshipping him? For that is truly not the god that sent his son/himself (this can be assumed because they are a trinity) to die for you, you have some other gods image in your head or someone who is not a god at all.

Yikarso · Post by **Yikarso** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:17 pm

I've been reading this discussion and have noticed something wrong with it. I'm seeing a lot of this "You damn arrogant Christians think your opinion is right and all others are wrong! Don't act like you know you are right!" The thing is, in this sort or argument, everyone knows that they are right, why else would they argue their beliefs? I don't really think of someone who thinks "God is real, but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong!" is what I would call a Christian.

It's called faith. Cry more noobs.

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:21 pm

No, there's a difference between knowing and believing. Knowing, you have factual evidence to back up your claim. I KNOW God doesn't exist. I believe otherwise. It's kind of hard to distinguish the two, but it's an important distinction.

Luke, you're repeating yourself. I never said God would kill a drug addict, and I never said your opinions were wrong. Okay, well maybe the second one once or twice, but only because I was frustrated at you for being such an egotistical cock. I told you to stop saying everyone's wrong for not believing like you.

But for the record, I'll repeat my answer--God won't kill a drug addict, but he'll punish him. And to me, that makes no fucking sense.

I'm done arguing. Get some reading comprehension then come back and talk to me.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:40 pm

Chris, god does not punish us in life or in death, this is the truth. However if we do not believe that god has taken responsibilty for our sins on the cross , than we will not be spared the guilt of our sins when we are in his presence because if you are not saved you will not believe that you have been spared. God has already spared us from our guilt, we just have to believe that he has done so, and to believe he has done that, is to believe that jesus died on the cross for our sins, and if you believe that then you are saved. Now do you understand? The guilt will cause us horrible pain if we do not believe that we do not have to bear it, and then god will put us out of our misery he will kill those who are in pain, but tell me if you put down a sick dog does this mean that you do not love it? No truly it is an act of mercy..God does not punish, no, truthfully he does nothing but forgive us time after time and than he did it once and for all on the cross.

An interesting experiment: Next time you hear a great love song imagine that god is singing it to you, and tell me how it makes you feel inside.

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:00 am

Bastardized because a god who would allow me to be in pain when he could heal it at no cost to himself (the same thing as hurting me himself) is acting like he loves me.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:51 am

He already has healed every1, that is what they did on the cross,if you believe this then you are saved.

You see he has already "healed" everyone(salvation), but you have to believe that he has, that is believe that jesus christ died for your sins, if you don't believe that then you are not saved ("healed") and that is your choice to not believe, god can't make you accept his salvation("his healing") he can only offer it to you.

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:54 am

...and you still don't know what this magical phrase ("Reading Comprehension") means. Look it up, it'd do you some good.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:01 pm

My reading comprehension is fine, you made it sound as though you thought god himself indirectly made you suffer, when that truly is not the way it is. And he can't just take away your "pain" with no pain done to himself, no he does the opposite of that he endures your pain for you, he suffers so you don't have to, that is what happen on the cross, if you truly understand everything god did for you on the cross you would not believe him to be evil in any kind of way, and yes believing he causes you pain directly or indirectly is an evil picture of god, one that i refuse to accept. As you should to chris because you can not have an intimate relationship with a god you think will hurt you, the resentment will drive you farther apart. That is not what god wants, he wants to have an extremely intimate relationship with you, he wants you to experience his love completely. Chris god loves you.

DJ Yoshi · Post by **DJ Yoshi** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:11 pm

That is the way it is. If he can do anything, that includes taking away unneeded pain in the afterlife.

And for your information, Revelations says you will burn for millenium in a pit of fire, not that you'll feel guilty. Re-read.

skywalker541 · Post by **skywalker541** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:12 pm

He can do anything but there are certain ways of doing things, do you not remember jesus in th garden of gethsemane praying Mathew 26:39...."My Father,if it is possible, take this cup from me . Yet not as I will but as you will." If it were possible to save us from our suffering any other way god would have taken the cup from jesus.btw, the cup is one of those things not meant to be taken literally, because it is the symbol of what he had to do.

As for burning for a millinium in a pit of fire, i did look it up i think you got it from Revelation 20 but that is talking about the devil, and no god will not put him out of his misery he will suffer god's fire for all eternity, but as for it saying we will, or that we will burn for a millenia, i can't find it anywhere, if oyu have found this plz tell me where it is at, it also says that before satan is cast into the lake of fire (god's presence) he will belocked in the abyss for a thousand years.

Post by **Falco Girgis** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:16 pm

Yikarso wrote:I've been reading this discussion and have noticed something wrong with it. I'm seeing a lot of this "You damn arrogant Christians think your opinion is right and all others are wrong! Don't act like you know you are right!" The thing is, in this sort or argument, everyone knows that they are right, why else would they argue their beliefs? I don't really think of someone who thinks "God is real, but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong!" is what I would call a Christian.

It's called faith. Cry more noobs.

OMG YIKARSO F U I HATE U MAN DIE DIE DIE!?!?!!

Kidding. You have nice boobs, btw. Thanks for the Red Saber and Double Cannon. Try to get on PSO or something tonight, we have some pwning and whatnot.

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Personally, I don't believe in this whole "getting saved" deal. It seems like alot of Christians dwell on it. I don't think a god would punish a good atheist. Again, nobody answered my question. What would god do to good ol' Adam Sandler. Seriously, the guy is a Jew.

Everybody take a minute and ask yourself. He's a good guy, is he going to cease to exist in the afterlife? Is he going to burn in hell? If you say yes, then that's not a religion, that is being elitist. A religion shouldn't be about being a part of it, it should be about being a good person.

Also, I can't stand this new bullshit about pork, catfish, shrimp, crab, and lobster being unclean meat. It really does sound like something that made sense back then, but it also shows the sheer human-ness of the bible.

I mean sure, omg, it eats dirt and filth, so it MUST be filthy. Do you know how healthy some of that stuff is? Bullshit. That's what I think.

Wutai · Post by **Wutai** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:37 pm

Most of this topic has been an argument between Skywalker and DJ Yoshi.

If they have not backed down or taken it to PM, they probably should.