I still do not understand how christians are elitists, since it is not only the best people that get saved, and we believe our god has saved everyone. Also falco me and chris were having a respectful civil debate and then you have to come in and call what i think bullshit, if you can't handle this argument than just stay out of it plz.
All getting saved is is believing that god has already saved you on the cross if you do not believe that jesus has bore all of your sins so you don't have to, than you are not saved because you do not believe that you are, do you understand? Being saved isn't something god just magically does to you now, being saved is just making the choice to believe that you already have been saved. But it is a choice that can not be made after you die, if there is a christian god falco you will have to bear your owns if you have not made the choice not to in life. probably because there won't be anytime for you to be saved once you have died and met god it will be to late for you, then you will already be suffering from the weight of your sins.
Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side?
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Falco Girgis
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I guess you don't understand. Not being a Christian isn't a sin. So what if you didn't quite see the light (assuming Christianity is true). So what if you didn't accept god during your life? So what if you thought Buddha was the light?
I see no more proof of Christianity than all the rest. You think god would punish for a mistake? Would you like it if Buddha was the savior and you suffered because of it? But you were so sure it was Christ, weren't you?
It's not right. It's not godly. Even I would forgive something that petty. Luke, like people have said, every conversation you uphold about why it is that you must be saved relates back to the Bible. The Bible doesn't mean anything to me or any other atheist/agnostic. It's a book.
Oh, and Skywalker, are you avoiding my question about Adam Sandler? You still haven't answered me. You can't pepper or spicen' a god up enough to make him look good for sending good people to hell.
If you died for a group of people, would you sit there and go "Oh well, you didn't believe in me in life, it's too late. k thx bai" before killing them to end their suffering? If you'd do that, then you obviously died for no reason, because that's petty, low, and humanistic.
Btw, what about people who were raised Hindu and would suffer persecution or be murdered if they didn't continue to worship that faith? What about people that are secluded from everybody else and haven't ever even heard of the Christian god? Are they going to be "suffering unbearable guilt" because they never heard of the big man? I promise you not.
Skywalker, you can never talk to me without trying to convert me. There is nothing unwise or bad about not knowing. You don't know there is a god. I don't care what you say, it can't be known. You have faith that there is. I don't have faith though. Faith to me is about as good as nothing.
Instead of me being respected for not pretending to be a Christian when I don't know, I'm persecuted by all of you who do have faith in something that seriously can't be proven.
I see no more proof of Christianity than all the rest. You think god would punish for a mistake? Would you like it if Buddha was the savior and you suffered because of it? But you were so sure it was Christ, weren't you?
It's not right. It's not godly. Even I would forgive something that petty. Luke, like people have said, every conversation you uphold about why it is that you must be saved relates back to the Bible. The Bible doesn't mean anything to me or any other atheist/agnostic. It's a book.
Oh, and Skywalker, are you avoiding my question about Adam Sandler? You still haven't answered me. You can't pepper or spicen' a god up enough to make him look good for sending good people to hell.
Really? And you're saying that I'll suffer unbearably before god kills me as a "final act of mercy." You didn't hear me bitch about it, I just stated that I disagreed.skywalker541 wrote:Also Gyrovorbis me and chris were having a respectful civil debate and then you have to come in and call what i think bullshit, if you can't handle this argument than just stay out of it plz.
If you died for a group of people, would you sit there and go "Oh well, you didn't believe in me in life, it's too late. k thx bai" before killing them to end their suffering? If you'd do that, then you obviously died for no reason, because that's petty, low, and humanistic.
Btw, what about people who were raised Hindu and would suffer persecution or be murdered if they didn't continue to worship that faith? What about people that are secluded from everybody else and haven't ever even heard of the Christian god? Are they going to be "suffering unbearable guilt" because they never heard of the big man? I promise you not.
Skywalker, you can never talk to me without trying to convert me. There is nothing unwise or bad about not knowing. You don't know there is a god. I don't care what you say, it can't be known. You have faith that there is. I don't have faith though. Faith to me is about as good as nothing.
Instead of me being respected for not pretending to be a Christian when I don't know, I'm persecuted by all of you who do have faith in something that seriously can't be proven.
I answered your question about good non-Christians. Even though they are good, they are still sinners like everyone else. They have to accept that Jesus died for their sins or they have to die for their own sins.GyroVorbis wrote:Personally, I don't believe in this whole "getting saved" deal. It seems like alot of Christians dwell on it. I don't think a god would punish a good atheist. Again, nobody answered my question. What would god do to good ol' Adam Sandler. Seriously, the guy is a Jew.
Everybody take a minute and ask yourself. He's a good guy, is he going to cease to exist in the afterlife? Is he going to burn in hell? If you say yes, then that's not a religion, that is being elitist. A religion shouldn't be about being a part of it, it should be about being a good person.
Also, I can't stand this new bullshit about pork, catfish, shrimp, crab, and lobster being unclean meat. It really does sound like something that made sense back then, but it also shows the sheer human-ness of the bible.
I mean sure, omg, it eats dirt and filth, so it MUST be filthy. Do you know how healthy some of that stuff is? Bullshit. That's what I think.
Also, what a creature eats affects its health and can affect the health of anything that eats that creature. Just an example, if you feed a cow some cow it can get mad cow disease. If a person eats it, they can get mad cow disease.
It was my understanding that cows got mad cow disease from eating other cows. Anyways, the point was that what a creature eats can affect the health of what eats the creature.DJ Yoshi wrote:That's a horrible example. Cow's get mad cow disease from -KAZAAM!- up cows, not just regular cows. Pigs are fine, and are actually much healtheir than cow meat because there's less fat. Fish and seafood are one of the healthiest things to eat.
I did. Like I said, the point of my example was that if you eat anything that ate something bad it can be passed on to you. Also, I can eat fish as long as they have both fins and scales. And you're supposed to remove fat and blood. If you did that wouldn't pigs and cows be about the same healthwise except for the pigs being considered unclean part?DJ Yoshi wrote:Obviously you didn't read the part where PIGS AND FISH ARE HEALTHIER THAN COWS.
And I have a question for anyone who knows: Are there any religious texts that contain prophecies that have been fulfilled? I know the Bible is one. I was just wondering if there were others.
Edit: I found this link on clean and unclean meats. - http://www.giveshare.org/Health/health5.html
Last edited by Karkash on Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
..except you can remove fat from pigs, for the most part. They're saltier by nature, but not anywhere as greasy and fattening as cows, because the meat itself in its most popular form (hamburgers) has fat intertwined with it. But then I doubt they'd still be just as healthy.
Yeah, also, shrimp and lobsters and clams are all excellently healthy for you (as long as not deep fried) and aren't "kosher". Once again, I think people's biggest problems on these boards is truly grasping what the hell I'm SAYING.
And what prophecy has been fulfilled? Name one.
Yeah, also, shrimp and lobsters and clams are all excellently healthy for you (as long as not deep fried) and aren't "kosher". Once again, I think people's biggest problems on these boards is truly grasping what the hell I'm SAYING.
And what prophecy has been fulfilled? Name one.
There is no signature.
The Destruction of Jerusalem
Prophecy: "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." "Let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:2, 16.
Fulfillment: Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 by the Roman warrior Titus.
A Great Persecution, or Tribulation
Prophecy: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world." Matthew 24:21.
Fulfillment: This prophecy points primarily to the long period of tribulation that took place during the Dark Ages and was instigated by the apostate church. It lasted more than 1,000 years. Over 50 million Christians were slain for their faith in this terrible tribulation period. One writer says the apostate church "has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind." W.E.H. Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, (Reprint; New York: Braziller, 1955) Vol. 2, pp. 40-45.
The Sun Turned into Darkness
Prophecy: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: This was fulfilled by a day of supernatural darkness on May 19, 1780. It was not an eclipse. Timothy Dwight says, "The 19th of May, 1780, was a remarkable dark day. Candles were lighted in many houses; the birds were silent and disappeared, and the fowls retired to roost. ... A very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand." Quoted in Connecticut Historical Collections, compiled by John Warner Barber (2nd ed.; New Haven: Durrie & Peck and J.W. Barber, 1836) p. 403.
The Moon Turned into Blood
Prophecy: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come." Joel 2:31.
Fulfillment: The moon became as red as blood on the night of the "dark day," May 19, 1780. Milo Bostick in Stone's History of Massachusetts says, "The moon which was at its full, had the appearance of blood."
The Stars Fall from Heaven
Prophecy: "And the stars shall fall from heaven." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: The great star shower took place on the night of November 13, 1833. It was so bright that a newspaper could be read on the street. One writer says, "For nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze."* Men thought the end of the world had come. Look into this. It is most fascinating, and a sign of Christ's coming.
*Peter A. Millman, "The Falling of the Stars," The Telescope, 7 (May-June, 1940) 57.
Prophecy: "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." "Let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:2, 16.
Fulfillment: Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 by the Roman warrior Titus.
A Great Persecution, or Tribulation
Prophecy: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world." Matthew 24:21.
Fulfillment: This prophecy points primarily to the long period of tribulation that took place during the Dark Ages and was instigated by the apostate church. It lasted more than 1,000 years. Over 50 million Christians were slain for their faith in this terrible tribulation period. One writer says the apostate church "has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind." W.E.H. Lecky, History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe, (Reprint; New York: Braziller, 1955) Vol. 2, pp. 40-45.
The Sun Turned into Darkness
Prophecy: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: This was fulfilled by a day of supernatural darkness on May 19, 1780. It was not an eclipse. Timothy Dwight says, "The 19th of May, 1780, was a remarkable dark day. Candles were lighted in many houses; the birds were silent and disappeared, and the fowls retired to roost. ... A very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was at hand." Quoted in Connecticut Historical Collections, compiled by John Warner Barber (2nd ed.; New Haven: Durrie & Peck and J.W. Barber, 1836) p. 403.
The Moon Turned into Blood
Prophecy: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come." Joel 2:31.
Fulfillment: The moon became as red as blood on the night of the "dark day," May 19, 1780. Milo Bostick in Stone's History of Massachusetts says, "The moon which was at its full, had the appearance of blood."
The Stars Fall from Heaven
Prophecy: "And the stars shall fall from heaven." Matthew 24:29.
Fulfillment: The great star shower took place on the night of November 13, 1833. It was so bright that a newspaper could be read on the street. One writer says, "For nearly four hours the sky was literally ablaze."* Men thought the end of the world had come. Look into this. It is most fascinating, and a sign of Christ's coming.
*Peter A. Millman, "The Falling of the Stars," The Telescope, 7 (May-June, 1940) 57.
Sir, prepare to feel like an idiot.
1) Destruction of Jerusalem. The New testament wasn't even published in AD 70. Also, destruction of a city...Rome, the greatest city and civilization of all time got destroyed. It's a natural, and normal process.
2) Spanish Inquisition? Holocaust? Also, the most popular religion in 1200 AD was...Roman Catholicism. Amazing. They weren't persecuted for not being Christian--itw as for not being Catholic.
3) Sun turned into darkness--Where? Just one part of the earth? Multiple parts of the earth? ALL of the earth? Could it not have just been a very large object blocking the Sun? Do you know for sure it even happened for the Earth as a whole? No?
4) Moon turned into blood--Full lunar eclipses, instead of turning the moon black, give the moon a faint reddish glow from the sunlight bending and filtering around the Earth that hits it.
5) METEOR SHOWERS HI.
1) Destruction of Jerusalem. The New testament wasn't even published in AD 70. Also, destruction of a city...Rome, the greatest city and civilization of all time got destroyed. It's a natural, and normal process.
2) Spanish Inquisition? Holocaust? Also, the most popular religion in 1200 AD was...Roman Catholicism. Amazing. They weren't persecuted for not being Christian--itw as for not being Catholic.
3) Sun turned into darkness--Where? Just one part of the earth? Multiple parts of the earth? ALL of the earth? Could it not have just been a very large object blocking the Sun? Do you know for sure it even happened for the Earth as a whole? No?
4) Moon turned into blood--Full lunar eclipses, instead of turning the moon black, give the moon a faint reddish glow from the sunlight bending and filtering around the Earth that hits it.
5) METEOR SHOWERS HI.
There is no signature.
1) It's generally believed that the book of Matthew was written in the 60's A.D. Some do believe it was written in the 80's or 90's though.
2) I suppose the prophecy could refer to any of those events. Did any other than the slaying of Christians/non-Catholics last for 1000 years?.
3) The prophecy didn't specify where it would happen and I seriously doubt that it was a large object blocking the sun. If it was an object, then what could it have been?
4) You say a full lunar eclipse would give the moon a faint reddish glow. If that was the only effect then I doubt they would have described it as the moon being as red as blood.
5) Do meteor showers light the sky up that much and last for four hours? I've read of them lasting a couple hours but I don't know about four.
2) I suppose the prophecy could refer to any of those events. Did any other than the slaying of Christians/non-Catholics last for 1000 years?.
3) The prophecy didn't specify where it would happen and I seriously doubt that it was a large object blocking the sun. If it was an object, then what could it have been?
4) You say a full lunar eclipse would give the moon a faint reddish glow. If that was the only effect then I doubt they would have described it as the moon being as red as blood.
5) Do meteor showers light the sky up that much and last for four hours? I've read of them lasting a couple hours but I don't know about four.
2) What?
3) Dunno, and neither do you. There's just not enough information from that era to know for sure.
4) Or maybe they were superstitious bastards back then and were exagerrating? Also, when something that's always white turns red, even slightly, the first thing you think about is a bad omen, death, blood. You don't know that they wouldn't have described it as "blood red" and neither do you know that a full lunar eclipse doesn't show a blood red moon.
5) They can. There were ones that caused miniature apocalypses, shifts in temperature, and even ice ages, supposedly. And meteor showers that lasted for days. Stranger things have happened.
3) Dunno, and neither do you. There's just not enough information from that era to know for sure.
4) Or maybe they were superstitious bastards back then and were exagerrating? Also, when something that's always white turns red, even slightly, the first thing you think about is a bad omen, death, blood. You don't know that they wouldn't have described it as "blood red" and neither do you know that a full lunar eclipse doesn't show a blood red moon.
5) They can. There were ones that caused miniature apocalypses, shifts in temperature, and even ice ages, supposedly. And meteor showers that lasted for days. Stranger things have happened.
There is no signature.
2) The prophecy spoke of a tribulation "such as was not since the beginning of the world." The slaying of Christians/non-Catholics lasted over 1000 years. Did the Holocaust or the Spanish Inquisition?
And a link about clean and unclean meats in case you didn't see - http://www.giveshare.org/Health/health5.html
And a link about clean and unclean meats in case you didn't see - http://www.giveshare.org/Health/health5.html