Need a Little advise

[Aeolus]

I refer to this forum as help with c++ lol.

[programmerinprogress]

Sometimes it's essential to do some research for yourself, such as looking up something about the standard library (such as the <cctype> header and it's functions)

It can save you so much time, and money if you want to learn to program, but you don't want to buy every book under the sun.
Also, the information isn't fragmented, so you're likely to see more possibilities/solutions to solving your problem.

[Aeolus]

Haha not every book, just ones that will help.

Well i mean i look at every programming thread here and if they have a problem i wait for someone to write the answer down. Then i read the answer and learn.

I ask questions sometimes but most the time i use google, and when i need to see what header files do what then i will use cnet or cplusplus.

[qpHalcy0n]

If I may give you a little advice about school, coming from experience in the professional arena. The short of it is that your specialized technical schools with game programming programs (this includes full sail and digipen and what have you) are not particularly well rounded. The long of it is a few fold.

First, people who come out of such programs often lack the general and more practical elements of engineering and programming. They may be able to tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the pros and cons of offline generated content and procedurally generated content, all the various forms of pixel format encoding, etc, etc. They may not be able to tell you what time and how the STL implements quicksort. They may not be aware of multi-threaded programming concepts or even have good skills with good top down code design structures. Most companies conduct several interviews, one of which will be on the spot where they may or may not put you through the wringer. If you don't know your s***, you won't get a call back.

Secondly, these programs usually lack the sort of real world, real life social experience you would get at a multi-program state or private graduate college. Part of game programming is the ability to deal with people day to day, communicate professionally with them and not be a jerk or completely lack social skills. These skills will be vital to your success in a team oriented development system.

The other thing this *REALLY* shows about you is the fact that you can do things to completion amidst other things that you *DO NOT WANT TO DO*. This is very important and this is what school really kindof shows about you as a person. There are not many people who really WANT to go to a boring ass (mandated) class day in/day out. Do mundane school projects. Go out and work at the same time. But this is what it takes to get your skills. You have to have the drive to do all the things you DON'T want to do...AND...write games at the same time. Whereas if your schooling IS writing games, that element is sort of lacking.

Either way, with something as serious as $80 large and 3 years of your life, it pains me to see all this kindof "You should do this" advice out there from a bunch of "Well I heard from here" or "This guy told me that..". Now I realize that I am one of these "This guy told me that.." cases, but I do have experience with what it takes to get in, keep your job. What it takes to write games. What it takes to pioneer your own projects and get them out there. If you do a little investigation (which you should do.....a lot of), you'll see most of the industry thinks the same way. While you'll find spattered here and there your Digipen and Full Sail success stories, the general opinion from your professional sector is that its a lot of freakin hard work, and they want a more generalized, well rounded education out of ya.

That aside. Even an education isn't a golden key to get you in any door. You need to impress them, and by impress I mean show them a few completed projects and some good research oriented developments. No "it's been done before" crap. Research and implement. They want you to take them further....not take them 10 years into the past.


Rant mode off. sorry.

[Aeolus]

...A really long post (please don't quote it all) --Mar...

So you thinks its not worth it because they dont give you a good education in game design? Well half of it is c++ and Maya classes and the other half is general education such as calc and mythology. And since its in seattle they have real world classes where you have to go out and do tasks and shit.

[qpHalcy0n]

No, you mischaracterized what I said.

I didn't say that you would not receive a solid education in game design (although this could be debated as well). I am saying that it's a very common gripe on part of the hiring developer that the graduates just don't have all the engineering education required to be a good all-round problem solver. Game development is a bit more than "Some C++ and Maya" to say the absolute least. The reality is that game development is commonly not all about games at all. It's more or less about engineering solutions and keeping up on the technological curve. Programs which target people as being "fun and games" or specific to "game development" can not help but to be misleading. This is especially true to students who do not already have a background in game development. This is not to knock these programs, there are some that are very good. However, there are far many more that are very bad.

So these programs are all in their infancy and not fully developed yet. They are receiving support from the professional community at a rate just higher than a trickle. So this is where my opinion is based. Again, I'd simply urge you to do a hell of a lot more research before gambling 80g's and 3 years of your life to that sort of commitment.

[Aeolus]

The thing is i dont know where to even begin when it comes to looking for a good programming school that will teach me how to program, and how to make games. Also that is why i am ordering/reading beginner/advanced c++ programing and problem solving books before i go. I can take another year off if i need to, but school doesnt start till 6 months from now.

If you can provide some links to schools that have excellent programming degrees and game design degrees then i will appreciate it. I talked to my adviser at International Academy of Design and Technology and he said i only take general education classes for a year, and while im taking those classes i begin taking their beginning c++ classes. The second year i take all c++ programming/SDL/OpenGL/Maya classes and the third year i do the same. They said by the end of my 3 years i will have a working game created for my portfolio. Oh also they let you choose a company to intern at and they place you in, and since im going to IADT of seattle i have Activision Blizzard, Bunjee, Microsoft, EA games, Runic games, ArenaNet, Sony Entertainment, and about 52 more i can internship at.

Now since i explained it better what do you think?

[Falco Girgis]

Just forget it. Find a school that can teach you "programming." Everybody on this board learned to make games by teaching themselves. Not one of us here learned from a school.

Let me put this bluntly: if you go to a school like digipen or Full Sail, you are an idiot. Yes, that's right. I don't care if I sound like an ass for saying it. You're an idiot for two reasons 1) You are paying that kind of money when you can get a better degree somewhere else 2) You are getting a degree that will severely limit your career options (and probably pay).

Forget game development degrees. Go get your undergrad in Software/Computer Engineering or Computer Science. Teach yourself how to apply your programming skills to game development. Somebody with a "degree in game development" can be a game developer and that's it.

Somebody with a more general CS or Engineering degree can work wherever the hell they want. They pay isn't going to be as good in game development. There may come a day when you get sick of working for the man and want to work for an engineering company that pays you/treats you better--Oh shit, you aren't an engineer you're a game developer.

Don't be that idiot. You're going to put yourself into a shitload of debt (notice those schools don't do scholarships, they don't give a fuck about your grades or how smart you are, they want money) that you aren't going to be paying off for years. I can understand wanting to do what you love (hell, it's that passion that drives me), but there's a fine line between following your heart and being a dipshit (generally it's women who can't distinguish this difference (kidding (or maybe not))).

[qpHalcy0n]

Well, the advisers are there to do one thing. Collect 80,000 from someone (most of it will come from you).

Now I realize this all sounds doom & gloom especially considering all the wonderful prizes they've promised await you at the end of your 3 years of commitment. Who am I to say, some of it may even be true. However, the dose of reality about promised internships is that this hardly gets you in the door. It does not make you permanent whatsoever. While an internship at Microsoft, Blizzard and what have you may all sound wonderful, these companies are revolving doors for developers.

The best bet is to bust your ass while you're getting your Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering or equiv. and make some connections. Get to know the "who's who" of games. Get your work out there. It's all up to you.

[Falco Girgis]

I agree with everything that qpHalcy0n has said. Actually, I'm also doing (or attempting) everything that he has said.

[qpHalcy0n]

Oh wow, did not see your post there, looks like a simul-post :P

[sparda]

ditto to what Falco said.

[Aeolus]

See this is why i ask you guys, You are like my friends (They tell me the utmost honest truth without being scared if it will make them seem like a ass) but you guys have more experience.

Gyro/QP thanks, I needed that and thanks for saving me 80 large. Oh gyro can you tell me the classes you need to take to get your computer science/engineering degree? Like all of them, I mean your college shouldve gave you a sheet listing the classes needed to graduate. Id appreciate it.

Oh and whats better and whats the difference between Computer Science and Computer Engineering.

[Falco Girgis]

http://www.ece.uah.edu/ug_computer.htm#Program

And, of course, your general ed classes.

That's the actual ECE department website at my university.

[Aeolus]

Oh and whats better and whats the difference between Computer Science and Computer Engineering.

I edited that right as you replied.