liar or just ignorant, you decide.

[zeid]

Just out of curiosity, what exactly has Obama done exactly to warrant statements like;

I don't like Obama just as much as the next guy

and

As much as I hate defending Obama...

I'm not being rhetorical either, I am legitimately asking. Over hear in Australia I have heard nothing but praise for him, maybe I just don't watch enough TV...

Then again the Australian government has been wanting to but in a giant internet filter so it's not exactly like I would put it pass them to manipulate our media. But that's a whole other political debate.

[Innerscope]

I was saying that in jest. I'm pretty liberal, however, I'm not a fan of politicians in general. (concerning the major parties)

[Moosader]

Just about the board thing- I'd think it should go into "news" or "current events", but whichever.

[avansc]

well the problem i think (and i have perspective on this because im south african that lives in america ) is that the world for the most part, connects everything that is wrong with the corporate world to america and to an extent the previous administration (the economic fraud, the so called oil motivated war). they see obama as someone that is completely different, when he in actuality is not.

thats just my opinion.

[eatcomics]

He started out okay, but it just got worse and worse... I new from all the hype and all that he was promising, it was gonna be an epic fail, but w/e... People just listen to the media (It's like swine flu, people heard it killed people on the news, so they freak out, flus kill people alot, not just swine flu) and they hear good things on tv, so they say good things...

[Moosader]

So, like, what has he actually done wrong? :P

[avansc]

So, like, what has he actually done wrong? :P

all of what some people might say he has done wrong is up for debate, ie a catalyst for a flame war.
not really interested in that, merely the discussion on the tactic of deception that was either chosen, or the cardinal error made, in trying to push his agenda.

[Pickzell]

He started out okay, but it just got worse and worse... I new from all the hype and all that he was promising, it was gonna be an epic fail, but w/e... People just listen to the media (It's like swine flu, people heard it killed people on the news, so they freak out, flus kill people alot, not just swine flu) and they hear good things on tv, so they say good things...

Yeah, he was like a newbie game devver. Giving out his ideas before he started, not yet knowing how to make them into actions, which is where he went wrong, IMO.

[Innerscope]

So, like, what has he actually done wrong? :P

all of what some people might say he has done wrong is up for debate, ie a catalyst for a flame war.
not really interested in that, merely the discussion on the tactic of deception that was either chosen, or the cardinal error made, in trying to push his agenda.

Did you not read my comment? (more specifically the link)
No deception there or "agenda pushing". Considering he said $30,000-$50,000. (a typical politician move, $50,000 is probably a rare case) Just a plan that may not work that well.

[avansc]

So, like, what has he actually done wrong? :P

all of what some people might say he has done wrong is up for debate, ie a catalyst for a flame war.
not really interested in that, merely the discussion on the tactic of deception that was either chosen, or the cardinal error made, in trying to push his agenda.

Did you not read my comment? (more specifically the link)
No deception there or "agenda pushing". Considering he said $30,000-$50,000. (a typical politician move, $50,000 is probably a rare case) Just a plan that may not work that well.

i think you didn't listen to what president Obama said. he said ".. thats 30, 40, 50 thousand, immediately the SURGEON is reimbursed".

now if you look at the CPT codes for my state. NC.

Code Description cost
24900. Amputation, arm through humerus; with primary closure $624.29
24920. Amputation, arm through humerus; open, circular (guillotine) $620.39
24925. Amputation, arm through humerus; secondary closure or scar revision $479.88
24930. Amputation, arm through humerus; re-amputation $658.25
24931. Amputation, arm through humerus; with implant $739.04
25900. Amputation, forearm, through radius and ulna; $647.15
25905. Amputation, forearm, through radius and ulna; open, circular (guillotine) $640.15
23900. Interthoracoscapular amputation (forequarter) $1169.80
20838. Replantation, foot, complete amputation $2207.15

average of 865.12

average of his words is 40000.00

thats almost 50 fold of what the SURGEON gets paid. thats a gross mistake or a gross lie. i dont know which one.

[Innerscope]

i think you didn't listen to what president Obama said. he said ".. thats 30, 40, 50 thousand, immediately the SURGEON is reimbursed".

now if you look at the CPT codes for my state. NC.

Code Description cost
24900. Amputation, arm through humerus; with primary closure $624.29
24920. Amputation, arm through humerus; open, circular (guillotine) $620.39
24925. Amputation, arm through humerus; secondary closure or scar revision $479.88
24930. Amputation, arm through humerus; re-amputation $658.25
24931. Amputation, arm through humerus; with implant $739.04
25900. Amputation, forearm, through radius and ulna; $647.15
25905. Amputation, forearm, through radius and ulna; open, circular (guillotine) $640.15
23900. Interthoracoscapular amputation (forequarter) $1169.80
20838. Replantation, foot, complete amputation $2207.15

average of 865.12

Yea, and non of those amputees were diabetic. Health care doesn't cover diabetic related injuries the same way it does trauma related.

[avansc]

dude i dont want to argue with you..

i dont know if you know anything about medical coding. medical standards.
the CPT (current procedural terminology ) is decided on by the AMA (american medical association), these prices get fixed.
there is no such thing as an amputation for a diabetic, for a white person, black person, or anything like that.
those code and pricing are set for a particular procedure. and not dependent on other conditions.

ICD9 codes deal with conditions, such as diabetics, but does not effect the pricing of the CPT code.

if you want to believe a doctor gets 40k for an amputation.. fine believe that.. but its just not true, its not my opinion, my mother is a medical doctor, and i dont think she would lie to me about something like this.

[Innerscope]

dude i dont want to argue with you..

i dont know if you know anything about medical coding. medical standards.
the CPT (current procedural terminology ) is decided on by the AMA (american medical association), these prices get fixed.
there is no such thing as an amputation for a diabetic, for a white person, black person, or anything like that.
those code and pricing are set for a particular procedure. and not dependent on other conditions.

ICD9 codes deal with conditions, such as diabetics, but does not effect the pricing of the CPT code.

if you want to believe a doctor gets 40k for an amputation.. fine believe that.. but its just not true, its not my opinion, my mother is a medical doctor, and i dont think she would lie to me about something like this.

I don't want to argue either, and I'm not questioning your mother. Being a diabetic makes you more of a liability, where as being white/black doesn't. Health care is fucked up and the facts are facts: http://www.amputee-coalition.org/fact_s ... leamp.html
I'm not sure how insurance is factored into your "fixed" price. Insurance can be specific on what is covered. Before I was dropped from health insurance I only got so much coverage. Maybe it's different in California. Of course, now (without health insurance) I walk into a hospital and I have to pay $1600 for a check up.

[avansc]

being a diabetic can increase your chances of needing a amputation, but it does not make your amputation cost more than any other.
im not saying that the end bill is not 40k. i can believe that. but thats private hospital costs and so on, cost for anesthetists and so on. the doctors are really not the ones that push up prices. i know a aspirin cost like 11 dollars in a hospital.

dont know why you would need to go for a check up. you seems young and healthy.

ps: those cost are kinda like when you go ot the dentist. the insurance will cover the CPT pricing if you have a base cost. but there are specialists that add their end onto the CPT price.. but there is always a doc available that does it at the base CPT cost. in medicine, much like everything else in life. you get what you pay for.

i do how ever agree that the medical system has to be overhauled. but i dont agree with the way its being proposed to be done.

[Bakkon]

Yea, and non of those amputees were diabetic. Health care doesn't cover diabetic related injuries the same way it does trauma related.

I'm diabetic and we went over this when I was first diagnosed. It would cost somewhere from $1500 for $2000 for me.