College.

[Aspirer]

With all the stuff that's going on in the world, one has to wonder whether its worth it to go to college. I've read articles about student debt, and I want to know how you guys handled, if you are or have been to college. I'm most curious to find out what Falco's situation is, if that's not too nosey. I think but I don't know anything, Falco went to a big expensive college? Right now, the way things are, with the economy, with rising student debt, tuition costs, its all pretty F*cked up. They say the only way you will be successful is to go to school, but you can't pay off the debt. So you work the rest of your life serving burgers or maybe being a manager at mcdonalds, joining the military, or something like that! What would be your advice about this guys?

[dandymcgee]

It depends, what do you want to do with your life? If you want to be a programmer do you seriously think you have the knowledge to stand a chance at convincing a potential employer that you are worth hiring? That's assuming you even get an interview. If not, do you think you are able to teach yourself enough to land a solid job in the reasonably near future?

If you can succeed through traditional methods what will you do? Start your own company? Forfeit your dream job for something less?

This is a huge decision and can seriously impact your career potential for the rest of your life. Do you have to go to college to succeed? Definitely not. Are your chances of succeeding higher if you do? I would be willing to bet there aren't many people that would say otherwise.

These are the questions you need to answer for yourself.

Personally, I would never be where I am today if I hadn't enrolled in college. I regret certain choices I made a bit too hastily, such as which college to attend, but I prefer not to dwell on the negative. Am I in debt? Yes, and a fuck ton of it, but I still don't regret it. I have learned and achieved so much more than I ever could have on my own. I feel like a world of opportunities has opened up to me not because I'll soon have a piece of paper saying "Dan is edumakated" but because of the skills I've acquired through this experience.

[EccentricDuck]

Go to school. Aim for scholarships or a state college if you're really worried about the debt. Take on side projects while going to school and pursue every opportunity that interests you while you're there (unless you really need to cut something out to keep up - but in that case it's because you have options and you're choosing the highest priority ones to you).

If you drop out part way through no big deal. Many of the biggest startups were formed by college dropouts, but you know what, they DID go to school in the first place and most had good reasons to drop out (like an opportunity right then and there that they really wanted to pursue). Have an intent to do well and you will do well. Don't worry too much about the outcome. If you treat it like a journey, and you're going to give it your all and get the most out of that journey you'll do well.

The biggest thing I can recommend is to meet people while you're there. It's a great place to meet people who have common interests. Plus college/university girls in my opinion tend to be cuter and more interesting than average and it's a great place for that as well

[JarrodParkes]

Go to school....

The biggest thing I can recommend is to meet people while you're there. It's a great place to meet people who have common interests. Plus college/university girls in my opinion tend to be cuter and more interesting than average and it's a great place for that as well

I definitely agree here. Also, like EccentricDucksaid, if you can manage a scholarship, which is what James and I have done, then things can work out much nicer. Good luck in your endeavors and work harder than everyone else wherever you go. Self-determination, self-motivation, and being dependable is something that school will not even teach...and in my opinion they are more valuable in employees than anything.

God Bless.

[Falco Girgis]

Big, expensive college? The hell? I wen to an average Alabama public school... University of Alabama in Huntsville. I had no scholarship, because I didn't bother studying for the ACT and left high school with only around a 3.2. I did, however, have all of my schooling paid for by the army, since my dad served in Iraq... So I had an excuse to be a lazy ass on the ACT.

I took out student loans for my living expenses, bought a car, and lived a decent life through college knowing that one day I would be paying it off... I'm still paying off my student loans to this day, but it isn't that big of a deal... Maybe $200 that gets auto debited from my account every month or so.

Your best bet is to find a scholarship. End of story.

And whoever said "the only way to be successful is to go to college" is full of shit. I know plenty of successful people who never bothered or dropped out. It is the safest, most secure way to guarantee your future, but it is by no means the only way (or even the best way). I have always tried to pursue my own endeavors on the side. I honestly didn't learn a whole hell of a lot from college (although I did wind up with a sweet ass job). I have always been a firm believer in pursuing your own interests and teaching yourself.

[Aspirer]

Falco, that's what I mean, I thought university's were pretty expensive. The one in my own city is. I am actually going to college right now, but its a community college. After I'm done here, I plan to go to school for game development somewhere. Maybe that's a pipedream... I haven't looked into the implications of a student loan, things like that. I want to be skillful in three areas, design, programming, and art (a triple threat). I really don't know what school to go to, when I search "game dev school" I get some crappy webpages which show all the big ones you've heard of, and none offer all three of these. I've heard full sail is pretty good, but AI (the art institute) sucks, its not even accredited, at least at where I heard it from. This may be a dumb reason, but I don't want to work with macs, which is what Full Sail trains you on, I don't even know if that's relevant to PC programming. I'd also like to go to a four year school, if not all three of these, I would choose programmer. Somehow I think a 14 week course at Full Sail isn't worth it. I'd also like my skills to apply to other fields, in case I decide to change that.

Someone I trust said your kids might be paying off your student loan, is that true? When you die, does the debt go to your family? I know virtually nothing about economics, debt, etc.
I do know student loans can be pretty cheap, my instructor said it can go down to 50$ a month if you choose to. Like you said Falco, $200, that's less than rent!
Also:

Big, expensive college? The hell?

Lol, most people don't understand the way I think ^_^

I've also learned very little I didn't already know (consider me tech/computer savvy), so far.

[Falco Girgis]

You DEFINITELY don't want to go to a game development college. They are FAR more expensive, you wind up learning less, and you wind up severely limiting yourself in the job market.

90% of game developers have your average computer science degree. With that degree you can work anywhere you like. Why would you want to pay way the hell more for a degree that will restrict you? Not only that, but I have personally talked to developers who have gone to these schools... You really don't wind up learning shit compared to a real CS degree (in their own words).

I would urge you to reconsider.

[thejahooli]

Someone I trust said your kids might be paying off your student loan, is that true? When you die, does the debt go to your family?

No, I'm pretty certain that that's not true. Loans will never be transferred onto a person other than the initial person who signed the contract and loans cannot be imposed onto anyone who did not agree to them in the first place. In England, your student loans are dependent on how much you get payed. If you don't get payed more than £21,000 (~$35, 000) per year, you don't have to pay any money back on your loan.

One thing I don't like about US colleges/universities is that they are far too expensive. Cambridge University, which is considered the best college/university in the world (above the likes of Harvard, MIT and Yale) is less than half the price at ~$15000 per year.

[Aspirer]

You DEFINITELY don't want to go to a game development college. They are FAR more expensive, you wind up learning less, and you wind up severely limiting yourself in the job market.

What I meant to convey was that I want to go to school to get into game development, I don't really care about where, so long as there's a good chance at getting a job. These advertised "game development" colleges seemed like a bad idea in the first place, thanks for clarifying! When I said "Somehow I think a 14 week course at Full Sail isn't worth it." I was talking about those schools, full sail advertises for programs which are almost less than a year, and I don't think that kind of program, or any other school like that (game dev school) is going to teach anything worthwhile in that time frame. In other words, I was being pretty cautious and skeptical about them.

[JamesParkes]

"School is for fools, look at me! haha" - homeless guy in Mr. Deeds

@Aspirer - in the words of the immortal Falco Girgis, school isn't the only option to be successful. BTW - success is measured in a multitude of ways. For your initial question, school is worth considering for the shear fact that it will act as a safety net for you in the job market. For most jobs, especially the ones Falco, Jarrod, and I see in Huntsville, if you don't have a college degree, then you have a very limited chance at even being considered for a job position .. let alone be hired. However, there are those that rise to the occasion without fancy college degrees, but that road is long, hard, and stressful.

Your best bet is to work as hard as you can to get a scholarship or get in a co-op/internship program. If you have a work ethic that exceeds those around you, then people will take notice. Colleges will take notice. Employers will take notice. You can't teach someone to be in the right place at the right time, but when you are, you must take advantage of the opportunity that has been handed to you. College is that place you want to be and once you get that opportunity take full advantage of it by working harder than everyone else around you. The only thing between effort and effort is you.

^^ - hope that was a little motivational

"You can do it!" - Rob Schneider in Waterboy

[JarrodParkes]

The only thing between effort and effort is you.

Paying dues to the NFL greats.

[TheBuzzSaw]

... you can't pay off the debt. So you work the rest of your life serving burgers or maybe being a manager at mcdonalds, joining the military, or something like that! What would be your advice about this guys?

Where did this idea come from? Software engineering is one of the best job markets right now (assuming you're talking about going to school for CS). As long as you are good at what you do, you will have really good wages and be able to handle a monthly student loan payment. If you come out of college flipping burgers, you did something wrong.

Also, don't get caught up in this idea that "college isn't worth anything". College education (provided you go to a good school) is valuable. You learn things in an environment that (A) forces you to experiment with the knowledge directly, and (B) grants you access to experts who can answer your questions directly. Also, you don't know what you don't know! College will give you a pretty sweeping overview of all the important topics.

No, you don't HAVE to obtain a college degree to be successful. On that same note, no, obtaining a college degree will also not automatically grant you success. It is, however, a tool. I know people who are successful without finishing college, but I know a lot MORE people who said college is worthless but are unemployed or underpaid. I know a lot fewer people who finished college and could not find a job SOMEwhere.

[XianForce]

Yeah, CS definitely has a lot of job openings. Computer Science/Mathematics is the 2nd fastest growing field currently. Second only to Petroleum Engineering apparently. Anyways, if you get a degree and are willing to move, you'll get a job somewhere.

[lalacomun]

And what do you think about Software engineering its still worth it or i better go to CE ?? do i have the same chances to get a job as a CE ??

[JarrodParkes]

And what do you think about Software engineering its still worth it or i better go to CE ?? do i have the same chances to get a job as a CE ??

My opinion is learn them both. The high/low level skills will separate you from the pack. If there is anyway to get into a degree program that is a hybrid mix, that is what I would suggest.