OS Religion Wars (Split from IRC Lulz)

[LeonBlade]

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

[DJ Yoshi]

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

They aren't a bunch of money hogs because people do that shit in their spare time. And no, they're not better--they're more easily edited and more easily adapted to different systems, but there's shittons of bugs, you can't game, drivers are fucked and only work about 1/2 the time (if you're lucky), and usability is null without MASSIVE amounts of reading and a healthey amount of general computer knowledge. They're much shittier overall, but if you like having complete control of your system and actually know what you're doing then they're better (which I somehow doubt you know how to utilize them to the fullest as it requires a retarded amount of scripting, programming, and basic OS and PC infrastructure knowledge).

[M_D_K]

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

They aren't a bunch of money hogs because people do that shit in their spare time. And no, they're not better--they're more easily edited and more easily adapted to different systems, but there's shittons of bugs, you can't game, drivers are fucked and only work about 1/2 the time (if you're lucky), and usability is null without MASSIVE amounts of reading and a healthey amount of general computer knowledge. They're much shittier overall, but if you like having complete control of your system and actually know what you're doing then they're better (which I somehow doubt you know how to utilize them to the fullest as it requires a retarded amount of scripting, programming, and basic OS and PC infrastructure knowledge).

IT IS FUCKING ON NOW!
for starters you can game, there are more and more games being released for Linux. And if a game is windows only you can try running it in WINE(a compatibility that allows windows code execution), or Cedega. They are getting better and better with a fucking shitload of the DirectX and windows API reverse engineered to work.And the idea that Linux can only be used by computer techs and geeks is long dead. Distro's like Fedora and Ubuntu make installation and setup painless and they set up graphics drivers and peripherals for you. Granted there are bugs in Linux but there are bugs in every single piece of software, Linux is more secure, more stable, and more cost effective than any commercial OS available. Drivers can be an issue but it usually only happens on to two fronts, wifi dongles and bluetooth. These areas are also improving with every possible wifi chipset having a driver(some better than others).

[LeonBlade]

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

They aren't a bunch of money hogs because people do that shit in their spare time. And no, they're not better--they're more easily edited and more easily adapted to different systems, but there's shittons of bugs, you can't game, drivers are fucked and only work about 1/2 the time (if you're lucky), and usability is null without MASSIVE amounts of reading and a healthey amount of general computer knowledge. They're much shittier overall, but if you like having complete control of your system and actually know what you're doing then they're better (which I somehow doubt you know how to utilize them to the fullest as it requires a retarded amount of scripting, programming, and basic OS and PC infrastructure knowledge).

I'm sorry, but your wrong in the most highest degree...
I run Ubuntu on my machine and I have no bugs at all, and in fact, I haven't had any driver problems like you claim there to be...
There are a lot of Linux OS that are easy to use like Ubuntu that anyone can figure out after a while...
Linux is much more secure (you don't even need virus protection on it) and it is more efficient unlike windows too...
And you don't need to know programming or scripting in order to use it either lol...

And like M_D_K says, there are lots of games being moved to Linux.
All the Steam games can be played through WINE... So that's the Half Life 2 Engine and all games that use it, plus many more games as well...

I think you should do some more research next time you want to talk about something like this...
Oh, and Microsoft are money hogs I'm sorry, they have been most of their "life".
Expecially with shit like Xbox Live you have to pay every year for no fucking reason...

All the money wasted on Vista which is an epic memory and money hog...
Microsoft hasn't made anything good in a long time...

So you just got owned, the end...

[DJ Yoshi]

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

They aren't a bunch of money hogs because people do that shit in their spare time. And no, they're not better--they're more easily edited and more easily adapted to different systems, but there's shittons of bugs, you can't game, drivers are fucked and only work about 1/2 the time (if you're lucky), and usability is null without MASSIVE amounts of reading and a healthey amount of general computer knowledge. They're much shittier overall, but if you like having complete control of your system and actually know what you're doing then they're better (which I somehow doubt you know how to utilize them to the fullest as it requires a retarded amount of scripting, programming, and basic OS and PC infrastructure knowledge).

IT IS FUCKING ON NOW!
for starters you can game, there are more and more games being released for Linux. And if a game is windows only you can try running it in WINE(a compatibility that allows windows code execution), or Cedega. They are getting better and better with a fucking shitload of the DirectX and windows API reverse engineered to work.And the idea that Linux can only be used by computer techs and geeks is long dead. Distro's like Fedora and Ubuntu make installation and setup painless and they set up graphics drivers and peripherals for you. Granted there are bugs in Linux but there are bugs in every single piece of software, Linux is more secure, more stable, and more cost effective than any commercial OS available. Drivers can be an issue but it usually only happens on to two fronts, wifi dongles and bluetooth. These areas are also improving with every possible wifi chipset having a driver(some better than others).

Okay, that is unless you have an ATI card, or any nVidia card after the 6800 series (maybe some 7900s will work, maybe the 8800 if you're lucky), have a motherboard that isn't supported, the game(s) you want are newer than at least 2 years and don't have out of the box linux support (read: every game that isn't made by id), and/or just decide not to work for WHATEVER reason (because linux is shit when it comes to automated support).

And yeah, you CAN install linux with ubuntu, kubuntu, or whatever easily installed flavor you decide on eventually. But maintenance, updating, and general care is a bitch afterwards (whereas with Windows it's as simple as click a button and a few restarts).

Security? Yeah, it's more secure...if you know what you're doing. Otherwise it's arguably LESS secure because any hacker/virus worth his/its salt will know the default passwords and commands to destroy a linux system just as easily as a windows system. If you know how to set up security protocols then yeah, you can MAKE it more secure--arguably you could do the same with Windows too, but most people are too retarded to know how. Not to mention 99% of the issues with security wouldn't exist if everone just stopped using a goddamn administrator account for day-to-day business. But we're talking about people who think the internet is IE, or AOL, who think broadband means "the pipes are wider", who have trouble navigating folders much less using an OS, and who probably have trouble tying their shoes before they go to work. As easy as Linux is to use for the average power user, do you really think that in any situation Linux is anywher NEAR as easy to use as Windows to these people? They'd probably shit themselves and piss their pants if they saw the console, and think they were using an operating system from 1995. Considering that's where most of the real work in Linux is done, I really don't think Linux is anywher near as easy to use.

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

They aren't a bunch of money hogs because people do that shit in their spare time. And no, they're not better--they're more easily edited and more easily adapted to different systems, but there's shittons of bugs, you can't game, drivers are fucked and only work about 1/2 the time (if you're lucky), and usability is null without MASSIVE amounts of reading and a healthey amount of general computer knowledge. They're much shittier overall, but if you like having complete control of your system and actually know what you're doing then they're better (which I somehow doubt you know how to utilize them to the fullest as it requires a retarded amount of scripting, programming, and basic OS and PC infrastructure knowledge).

I'm sorry, but your wrong in the most highest degree...
I run Ubuntu on my machine and I have no bugs at all, and in fact, I haven't had any driver problems like you claim there to be...
There are a lot of Linux OS that are easy to use like Ubuntu that anyone can figure out after a while...
Linux is much more secure (you don't even need virus protection on it) and it is more efficient unlike windows too...
And you don't need to know programming or scripting in order to use it either lol...

And like M_D_K says, there are lots of games being moved to Linux.
All the Steam games can be played through WINE... So that's the Half Life 2 Engine and all games that use it, plus many more games as well...

I think you should do some more research next time you want to talk about something like this...
Oh, and Microsoft are money hogs I'm sorry, they have been most of their "life".
Expecially with shit like Xbox Live you have to pay every year for no fucking reason...

All the money wasted on Vista which is an epic memory and money hog...
Microsoft hasn't made anything good in a long time...

So you just got owned, the end...

1) Read my above comments, it applies to most of your post. No, you don't need to know programming or scripting in order to use it (at least, not about 50% of it), but you do need to use a console, and most people would rather vomit battery acid than use the console.
2) It's only more secure because it's less popular, because it's harder to use. Hell, up until recently unless you were a computer guru and were rather fluent in scripting and/or programming it was damn near impossible to use. Gentoo was considered a godsend and it was even a bitch to use for someone who wasn't THAT fluent in the ways of computers.
3) No, not all the steam games can be played through WINE. Most of the Half Life 1 and 2 engine games can be. And that's assuming your video card has drivers, drivers whose OGL work flawlessly. Big assumption for linux. However there's a TON of other games that don't work so well--The Dawn of War 2 demo doesn't work, Fallout doesn't work, christ I could spend all day naming the games that don't work. Also, the performance in all games sees a MASSIVE hit, especially if they weren't made for OpenGL. And that's if the games DO work.
4) I've done my research, used Linux, know a lot of people who DO use linux. Microsoft is a business, they're "money hogs" because that's what businesses do. They make money. That's why they're created. Not to give shit away. And they pay plenty of attention to their customers. See: Windows Live, Windows 7, and the 360's new console. A big business like that just takes a lot more time to have the comments filter to the people who matter than a few guys throwing down some code in their free time. Also, Windows Live costs for a reason--if you used it regularly you'd know why it does. It's a great system and has a thousand times more content to offer than the PSN and a much cleaner delivery system. However, if you don't wanna pay for it, that's why the PS3 is still somewhat competitive. I'm not knocking the PS3, but Xbox Live really went from a piece of shit (original Xbox, 360's first year) to a great system.
5) Vista, while a huge resource hog and a pain in the ass, was a necessary evil in that it was a huge step in the right direction. It got a lot of things wrong, but a lot of things right. It's like comparing Windows NT to Windows XP. XP is a great OS and only a retard with no knowledge of how to use windows WHATSOEVER would say otherwise. It's not perfect, but it's clean, it's fast, it's easy to use, and it's capable of way more than any other OS out there. Even OSX with all it's pretty lights and cute graphics isn't capable of nearly the amount of things that XP is.
6) You haven't had driver issues. Ever. Never had a driver crash you've had to reinstall, never had one hiccup on you, never had anything like that happen, ever? I think that I, and every other person who has EVER used Linux would like to know what hardware and drivers you're using, because statistically you're in the get struck by lightning 10 times and win the lottery in every state without entering category.
7) I will agree that Linux is "more efficient unlike windows" (grammar much?). It's more efficient than windows if you use something akin to a level 3 gentoo install. If you start from the ground and work your way up, yeah, you can have a really sleek slim installation. It'll run a bit faster than windows and it'll definitely be EXACTLY what you want. However if you choose the "install everything to my desktop" option from Ubuntu upon installation, it's more bloated than a cheapass Dell machine, and runs about as fast.
8) "Most highest degree"? Seriously? Grammar.

Owned? I didn't realize I was 13 playing CS again.

Finally, I think it comes down to this--every Linux tard thinks Linux is far and away better than Windows because they can use it. Look at it from the 70 year old guy who's getting his first computer's perspective, look at it from the business perspective (at least on a client-side basis), look at it from the perspective of someone who knows dick-all about computers and wants one. In your opinion, sure, Linux is great and Linus Torvald's is the second coming of christ, woop dee-doo. But the reality of the matter is if you don't want to spend hours installing, tweaking, fixing, maintaining, or learning how to do all of the above to your OS, Windows is what you want--that includes 99% of gamers, all people over the age of 40, and most people UNDER the age of 40 for that matter. Not to mention Windows isn't shit, it's not horrible, and hasn't been since ME. Since 2000 it's been generally easy to use, easy to maintain, and easy to keep secure for anyone who has an intelligence quota over 80 (read: not legally retarded). Put it behind a router, turn on windows firewall, don't use admin account, and don't open stupid shit you get in an e-mail from someone you don't know.

But what would I know, it's not like I haven't tried using both for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 years or so now, is it?

[LeonBlade]

Wow... you are pathetic dude, I'm not even going to read your stupid post... but I will say this...

Good job at trying to win an internet fight...
(couldn't find the damn picture >.<)

[DJ Yoshi]

Wow... you are pathetic dude, I'm not even going to read your stupid post... but I will say this...

Good job at trying to win an internet fight...
(couldn't find the damn picture >.<)

I'm pathetic? Because I actually put thought and cohesion into my arguments (which is saying a lot considering they occurred at like 4 in the morning)? Sorry I don't just go "LOL UR STUPID AND WRONG" and then walk away. But hey, I'm sure you're oh so much cooler and better and more awesome than me, so have fun on your high horse buddy.

And I think the reason you're not gonna read it is because you lost all ability to understand anything I said after I used a word more than 6 letters long. I'm surprised you knew how to spell pathetic from your obvious dearth of intelligence. Aren't you, what, 17? Yeah, kinda figured as much. Sad how easily you can tell how old most people are just from how much of an idiot they portray themselves as on the internet.

EDIT: PS, I love your website. How do I make one like it?

[M_D_K]

Wow... you are pathetic dude, I'm not even going to read your stupid post... but I will say this...

Good job at trying to win an internet fight...
(couldn't find the damn picture >.<)

WTF! thats just retarded.

OK I'm gonna concentrate on this since its aimed at me.

Okay, that is unless you have an ATI card, or any nVidia card after the 6800 series (maybe some 7900s will work, maybe the 8800 if you're lucky), have a motherboard that isn't supported, the game(s) you want are newer than at least 2 years and don't have out of the box linux support (read: every game that isn't made by id), and/or just decide not to work for WHATEVER reason (because linux is shit when it comes to automated support).

And yeah, you CAN install linux with ubuntu, kubuntu, or whatever easily installed flavor you decide on eventually. But maintenance, updating, and general care is a bitch afterwards (whereas with Windows it's as simple as click a button and a few restarts).

Security? Yeah, it's more secure...if you know what you're doing. Otherwise it's arguably LESS secure because any hacker/virus worth his/its salt will know the default passwords and commands to destroy a linux system just as easily as a windows system. If you know how to set up security protocols then yeah, you can MAKE it more secure--arguably you could do the same with Windows too, but most people are too retarded to know how. Not to mention 99% of the issues with security wouldn't exist if everone just stopped using a goddamn administrator account for day-to-day business. But we're talking about people who think the internet is IE, or AOL, who think broadband means "the pipes are wider", who have trouble navigating folders much less using an OS, and who probably have trouble tying their shoes before they go to work. As easy as Linux is to use for the average power user, do you really think that in any situation Linux is anywher NEAR as easy to use as Windows to these people? They'd probably shit themselves and piss their pants if they saw the console, and think they were using an operating system from 1995. Considering that's where most of the real work in Linux is done, I really don't think Linux is anywher near as easy to use.

Linux does have legacy drivers for old graphics cards and in the case of Intel cards, recently a driver for several Intel based cards have been released and provide full 3D support. And I have newer come across a motherboard that linux couldn't run on. As for the games there are alot of other companies releasing games for Linux(besides id) there is Epic games(running late with UT3), 2D Boy, Introversion, and also alot of ports are turning up. Also isn't ES going to have a linux build. All I'm saying on this is that game companies are starting to realize Linux as a game platform(although some won't release a title for it till the windows version lifespan hits 0).

Linux doesn't suck at automated support, there is an automatic updater built into the package manager(debian based at least, don't know about yum). And as a result maintenance is a button press away, when there are system or application updates your are told just like windows update(minus alot of the restarts, only on kernel updates).

And what default passwords Linux doesn't have any. I do agree with you on the points about the users running as admin and setting easy to guess passwords(its just not smart).

For day to day use a user will not have to ever open a console, many regular users of Linux will use it because of the power it provides(I'm in the console alot ). For app installation there are the GUI front ends for package managers, to change user setting you have what is equivalent(but with more options) to the control panel. Alot of work has gone into making so you don't need the console, and you seem to be dismissing it just because alot of linux users like it. Yes people that do more than surf the web and check emails more than likely make use of the console, but that doesn't mean some techie retard will ever have to be exposed to it.

[DJ Yoshi]

words

Linux does have legacy drivers for old graphics cards and in the case of Intel cards, recently a driver for several Intel based cards have been released and provide full 3D support. And I have newer come across a motherboard that linux couldn't run on. As for the games there are alot of other companies releasing games for Linux(besides id) there is Epic games(running late with UT3), 2D Boy, Introversion, and also alot of ports are turning up. Also isn't ES going to have a linux build. All I'm saying on this is that game companies are starting to realize Linux as a game platform(although some won't release a title for it till the windows version lifespan hits 0).

I'm not talking legacy drivers, I'm talking drivers for NEW hardware. ATI cards are horribly unsupported unless you're in the 8500 series or less (maybe the 9*00 series by now, it's been a while since I checked), and newer nVidia cards even have troubles. Epic okay...who's 2D Boy and Introversion? We're not so much having a linux port as it's going to be easily ported TO linux because of it inherently being made in OGL. However less and less game companies are going to have that luxury as DirectX moves further and further away into its own, making the porting job much harder and less profitable. Wine/Cedega's great, but you have to pay per year to have your games work (at least if you wanna play anything recent) which...why not just install Windows and not have to pay anything?

Linux doesn't suck at automated support, there is an automatic updater built into the package manager(debian based at least, don't know about yum). And as a result maintenance is a button press away, when there are system or application updates your are told just like windows update(minus alot of the restarts, only on kernel updates).

Not really a button press, more an "enter console, insert these commands, sit back and wait" process. Also, that only works for SOME things, not obscure drivers (try getting an XFI to work right in Linux. Hell, it doesn't even work right in windows. Thank you Creative drivers.), and there's always the chance it'll decide to not work for whatever reason. It's not as easy as windows (literally a button press away) and that's only for updates, not support.

And what default passwords Linux doesn't have any. I do agree with you on the points about the users running as admin and setting easy to guess passwords(its just not smart).

That's 99% of the security issue in Windows though. You can't really do anything if you don't have admin access, if admin access isn't easy to gain it takes time and effort to code the virus (which a lot of virus makers/coders aren't willing to put a lot of into their work as they're generally doing it for money a la spam/ads), and that ends that cycle right there. The problem is most people wouldn't have the intelligence not to run on an admin account regardless of if they were using Windows or Linux--Windows just happens to be more popular, seen as more vulnerable, and thus gets the bad rap. If anything, it's MORE secure because the holes are constantly being found and patched up, whereas Linux...well god knows how many are in each distribution, and god knows if/when they'll ever be found by the kind of people that can fix them. And every distro is different, leaving only thousands of possibilities times hundreds of distributions leaving how many possible security holes? If you're intelligent, yeah, you can easily defend against almost all of the problems that would incur because of these security holes, but if you're not so great with computers then you'd honestly be safest using OSX out of any/all operating systems.

For day to day use a user will not have to ever open a console, many regular users of Linux will use it because of the power it provides(I'm in the console alot ). For app installation there are the GUI front ends for package managers, to change user setting you have what is equivalent(but with more options) to the control panel. Alot of work has gone into making so you don't need the console, and you seem to be dismissing it just because alot of linux users like it. Yes people that do more than surf the web and check emails more than likely make use of the console, but that doesn't mean some techie retard will ever have to be exposed to it.

For day to day use, but there's still the times of updating, installing, maintenance and other issues that aren't day to day use that crop up regularly. In windows, it's ALL gui-powered (except for the most complex of tasks) and tons of troubleshooting wizards easily adapt it to the average user. In linux, some of it's gui-based...package managers are a rather inefficient way of doing installs, hell the easiest way to do an install is IN the console, but the very sight of it would frighten off almost all non-power users. And package managers fuck up often, requiring you to get certain libraries and go through a labyrinthine maze of folders to put one little 32kb package somewhere so your one program could work, sometimes requiring you to do that multiple multiple times for different libraries.

I'm not dismissing it because Linux has yet to make the seamless GUI move. There's a lot you still have to do in the console, a lot of things that still don't have any GUI representation, and a lot of simple stuff that just can't be achieved via the GUI linux has. I'm not saying they haven't made leaps and bounds, but Windows didn't go from DOS to Windows Vista overnight, and likewise it's gonna take Linux a while to make the transition fully, and they're still in an interim stage.

[aamesxdavid]

[DJ Yoshi]

I love you so much for that.

[dandymcgee]

I don't get it.. Chocobo?

[MarauderIIC]

Original is:
Cursewords

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"Is wayne brady gonna hafta choke a bitch?"

[eatcomics]

That is what I love about Linux and all the other Linux based OS... they aren't a bunch of money hogs like Microfail...
And Linux OS are BETTER than Windows lol... now what does that tell you about Microfail?

They aren't a bunch of money hogs because people do that shit in their spare time. And no, they're not better--they're more easily edited and more easily adapted to different systems, but there's shittons of bugs, you can't game, drivers are fucked and only work about 1/2 the time (if you're lucky), and usability is null without MASSIVE amounts of reading and a healthey amount of general computer knowledge. They're much shittier overall, but if you like having complete control of your system and actually know what you're doing then they're better (which I somehow doubt you know how to utilize them to the fullest as it requires a retarded amount of scripting, programming, and basic OS and PC infrastructure knowledge).

and there is not standard for them making it hard for a general user to figure out how to use them, there are different versions of linux, different addons and all that stuff you can't keep up if you run a business. My business tech teacher is always all oh linux is a great OS and I just want to pimpslap her and tell her not everyone has time for it...

[LeonBlade]

Alright, obviously DJ Yoshi doesn't get it, somebody lock the topic because this is just going to get out of hand...