Best Console for a beginner to program on?

[Josh]

Hello, everybody, i'm Josh.
Yes, i'm only 12; but I have no other place to go to.
I'm a newbie to C/++.
The most advanced program i have created is a picture moving to the up and down arrow keys in the sdl library.
Anyways, I want to know what would be the best console to dev for.
And no, I don't want to use XNA and dev for xbox, it just seems like librarys just like XNA do all the work..
I know that a newbie beginner to C shouldn't even be asking this question, but I would like to know ahead of time so I may purchase this console, learn how to use it, and buy some games for it.
I was thinking about the dreamcast, (And please dont flame me for this) but it is a tad dated, right?
I mean, are there alot of devers on that system?


So, I really would like to know the best console for a beginner to dev for in C.

Thanks, Josh.

[aamesxdavid]

I think it would really depend on why it is you want to dev on a console. As you seem to know, you should really be focusing on learning the language, and using as few libraries as possible until you really know what you're doing in C/C++. So the real question is: what is it you are trying to accomplish? If you don't like the control that XNA takes from you (that's C#, anyway), it sounds like you want to do some lower-level functionality - creating/modifying an engine. So this would be a learning experience. If that's the case, why does it matter if a console is "dated"? Dreamcast is one of the easiest (maybe even the easiest?) consoles to get started with, but of course you won't be making the most cutting-edge 3D games. And given that there is more than enough to program for on PC alone, especially for a beginner, what is the motivation for using a console?

[Josh]

Thank you, thats just the response i was looking for.
I mainly wanted to get on a console because i just wanted to see if I could actually start developing games on an actual console, instead of a pc.
So,I guess I will buy a dreamcast, not only for the programming aspect but i hear it has some fun games.
Then, maybe in the future i will get onto the dreamcast and start making some stuff on it.
Although, i would like to ask one question: would api's such as opengl, directx and sdl work on dreamcast? Or would i need a dreamcast-specific api.

[andrew]

Although, i would like to ask one question: would api's such as opengl, directx and sdl work on dreamcast? Or would i need a dreamcast-specific api.

Go here.

I would suggest getting code to work on an emulator first before trying with hardware, but you really shouldn't have too many problems either way. That's a pretty mature console and more than a few people have already taken that path.

[animangaman690]

So,I guess I will buy a dreamcast, not only for the programming aspect but i hear it has some fun games.

Actually , you wouldn't have to buy a dreamcast at all. I know the way Falco uses produces an .elf, which will work on most DC emulators.

Although, i would like to ask one question: would api's such as opengl, directx and sdl work on dreamcast? Or would i need a dreamcast-specific api.

You could use opengl and sdl on dreamcast but you would have to build a library for dreamcast(not recommended) or you could use something like KallistiOS.

As for DirectX look at this page b/c I don't know that much about it working w/dreamcast.

For KOS: http://gamedev.allusion.net/softprj/kos/

[Lord Pingas]

Hello, everybody, i'm Josh.

My name is Josh too!

Yes, i'm only 12; but I have no other place to go to.

Does not matter at all if your twelve. Most young people arent really interested in what us cool guys do. So many people think were incapable of learning this kind of stuff (I'm 14)

Anyways, I want to know what would be the best console to dev for.

I don't think it's necessary to look up on programming on game console hardware until you are OK at programming on your own PC, erm, hardware, if that's the right way to put it.

[davidthefat]

Try the GBA, IDK if its good idea, I was saying it because the librarys seem "robust"

[Falco Girgis]

Try the GBA, IDK if its good idea, I was saying it because the librarys seem "robust"

Bad idea to start with.

The Dreamcast is nice, because it has an insanely well developed API. The thing making it the "easiest" to develop for is not the platform itself--I'm sure Gamecube and Xbox are comparatively easy or easier (not the PS2, the architecture is atrocious for a newbie--but the extremely mature homebrew API for the console.

Take a stroll over to http://dcemulation.org/phpBB if you would like to learn more. It's a very developed community with a lot of people and hardcore followers. There are also indie companies who publish (commercially) Dreamcast games: http://redspotgames.com and http://goatstore.com.

One of the good things about the platforms from the previous generation is that you can basically treat them like a slightly limited PC as a beginner. My first graphical application was when I was 14 for the Dreamcast. I didn't understand anything about the hardware, but I was able to successfully port SDL applications that I wrote on PC to the Dreamcast (and the PVR API). As you get older, the Dreamcast also has lots of things to offer. I remember being a teenager and always being excited for new peripherals for the console. VMUs, rumble packs, fishing rods, steering wheels, microphones, maracas--the Dreamcast has a lot of them, and they're pretty much all covered in the API. You get to tinker with lots of things.

Then when you get older, and more into the engineering/R&D portion, you can dig deeper into the Dreamcast than the KOS API allows you and do some really cool things.

[Lord Pingas]

LOL. Falco has said a mouth fall, and I know I learned something here xD

I learned a lot from that post and I did because Falco has kind of showed me "the light" with his post.

Then when you get older, and more into the engineering/R&D portion, you can dig deeper into the Dreamcast than the KOS API allows you and do some really cool things.

First of all, I did not really understand why people have to know a lot about computers to develop games but know I think I know a little more on why they do.

I didn't understand anything about the hardware, but I was able to successfully port SDL applications that I wrote on PC to the Dreamcast (and the PVR API).

I never knew SDL was compatible with the Dreamcast. Thanks for sharing this.

And theres a few other things but it won't fit...

Thanks Falco... You saved me the trouble of posting a few questions I knew I would have posted in the future ^_^

[dandymcgee]

I didn't understand anything about the hardware, but I was able to successfully port SDL applications that I wrote on PC to the Dreamcast (and the PVR API).

I never knew SDL was compatible with the Dreamcast. Thanks for sharing this.

I think the keyword there was "port (PVR API)". I know next to nothing about Dreamcast, but I'm fairly sure SDL isn't natively supported. It seems by how Falco was explaining it that porting SDL code to the Dreamcast's API is a reasonable task in most cases.

[Milch]

I think Wii is also a great console to dev for.
Theres also a SDL-port for Wii - see here: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Sdl
Here are a few tutorials for deving on Wii http://www.codemii.com/category/wii-pro ... tutorials/

[Lord Pingas]

I didn't understand anything about the hardware, but I was able to successfully port SDL applications that I wrote on PC to the Dreamcast (and the PVR API).

I never knew SDL was compatible with the Dreamcast. Thanks for sharing this.

I think the keyword there was "port (PVR API)". I know next to nothing about Dreamcast, but I'm fairly sure SDL isn't natively supported. It seems by how Falco was explaining it that porting SDL code to the Dreamcast's API is a reasonable task in most cases.

Oh OK. I did not really take notice to that part. Thanks by the way ^_^

[Trask]

The key to devving on a console, especially if you're new, is to find one with a good library and probably more importantly is an active community so that you can get help when needed.

[Falco Girgis]

I didn't understand anything about the hardware, but I was able to successfully port SDL applications that I wrote on PC to the Dreamcast (and the PVR API).

I never knew SDL was compatible with the Dreamcast. Thanks for sharing this.

I think the keyword there was "port (PVR API)". I know next to nothing about Dreamcast, but I'm fairly sure SDL isn't natively supported. It seems by how Falco was explaining it that porting SDL code to the Dreamcast's API is a reasonable task in most cases.

No, actually SDL does run on the Dreamcast. It's not "natively" supported--but it's also not "natively" supported on anything (software rendering and the like).

But yeah, I've never personally used SDL on the Dreamcast. The performance is definitely worse than developing with 3D hardware acceleration which is what the "ported to the PVR API" deal was about.

[Ginto8]

Although, i would like to ask one question: would api's such as opengl, directx and sdl work on dreamcast? Or would i need a dreamcast-specific api.

OK. In short, only SDL may work on Dreamcast reasons being:
#1: openGL and DirectX are PC APIs
#2: DirectX is made by Microsoft, which wants nothing to do with any console other than XBox
#3: The graphics hardware on Dreamcast is different from your PC's hardware by quite a bit, so KOS/PVR are the only viable ways to use the graphics capabilities.